TOPIC: S gear with Nebula

S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12127

Studiostriver wrote:

I`m interested to hear it,since I considering buying Nebula for clean and overdriven tones.


Best regards.


aI will add some clean and overdrive tones in a few days i think ... since my work schedule is tight... and need to run... but imo the hasle is well worth the effort for a nice tone...

nebula is superior in that way.. in metal it is just diferent... and maybe not worth to invest if you are short on money... but if you really want some clean tones and overdrive plus all the other stuff hardware related..like tapes consoles reverbs is a very nice plataform for add some warmth to our digital tracks...

see you guys in a bit!

:thumbs up:
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12128

Yes. Consider how to compensate for phase when using multiple mics at different distances. Simple IR's are in phase, but I'm not sure how Nebula handles it.

The mic proximity effect can be deceptive. While the low bass does get stronger when a mic is very close to the speaker, the sound is often more full back a few inches. Two phase compensated mics: one very close center or cap edge mic and one off-axis/45 degree several inches back may be a good thing to experiment with. Add a cone edge & rear cab mic and it should be almost enough for Metal. ;)

I don't find IR's to sound muffled, and there is no reason they would be. I do find the Nebula cabs to have a realism static IR's lack. The combined speaker dynamics & cab resonances is a very complex thing. Hearing those elements indicates to our brains that there is a real physical structure reacting, and satisfies/reassures us physiologically. Considering the advancements in spectral synthesis, where many hundreds of independently functioning partials (harmonics) per voice are generated and seamless sample morphing is commonplace, some company will probably release a convincing cab modeling module at some point soon. Perhaps the Amplitude 4 cab module does that? The speaker replacement feature would indicate so. I'm surprised Native Instruments hasn't tackled the problem. I could be misunderstanding something, or with how all the potential speaker, cab and mic options would affect the models, it may be a monumental task.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12130

GCKelloch wrote:

Yes. Consider how to compensate for phase when using multiple mics at different distances. Simple IR's are in phase, but I'm not sure how Nebula handles it.

The mic proximity effect can be deceptive. While the low bass does get stronger when a mic is very close to the speaker, the sound is often more full back a few inches. Two phase compensated mics: one very close center or cap edge mic and one off-axis/45 degree several inches back may be a good thing to experiment with. Add a cone edge & rear cab mic and it should be almost enough for Metal. ;)

I don't find IR's to sound muffled, and there is no reason they would be. I do find the Nebula cabs to have a realism static IR's lack. The combined speaker dynamics & cab resonances is a very complex thing. Hearing those elements indicates to our brains that there is a real physical structure reacting, and satisfies/reassures us physiologically. Considering the advancements in spectral synthesis, where many hundreds of independently functioning partials (harmonics) per voice are generated and seamless sample morphing is commonplace, some company will probably release a convincing cab modeling module at some point soon. Perhaps the Amplitude 4 cab module does that? The speaker replacement feature would indicate so. I'm surprised Native Instruments hasn't tackled the problem. I could be misunderstanding something, or with how all the potential speaker, cab and mic options would affect the models, it may be a monumental task.

Good post

Are you trying the new cabs in amplitube 4? I would buy it but i dont know if its worth it just for the cabs.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12132

Thanks, mon. No, I don't have it. I'm waiting for reviews before I consider it. I like S-Gear just fine. My TesslaProMkII Speaker Dynamics preset sequence adds the cab-like dynamics I like.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12133

Okey is that a plugin i can try somewhere ? for mac ?
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12134

PC only, sorry. Perhaps there is some free Mac plugin with really good output transformer saturation emulation. The reason I used two Tessla incidences in series is because the mixture of the British and US console models produced a meaty/warm/articulate response. I think both are solid state preamp models. The output transformer simulation provides the tasty gain compression. I set the first instance as the British console for the meaty warmth that simulates cab resonance with some loudness leveling. The "transient" knob is maxed to let the attack through without adding audible distortion. The second instance with the US console model then processes the full transients for a crisp/fat/lively speaker dynamics effect. Since there are upper harmonics added, the included bass knob has to be turned up a few dB on each instance to match the spectral balance of the original sound. I created a second version of the sequence with a softer gain s-curve which can work well for some lead sounds. I also tried both versions with the console models switched, but it just wasn't right. It's not exactly like speaker/cab dynamics/resonance, but it creates the same sort of effect, and can make the guitar fit into a mix without further dynamic processing, so it doesn't sound unnatural like compression. Hitting the sweet spot is a matter of setting the input to the plugin sequence just right. I know you can't use the plugin, but I thought my explanation might help you set up something like it with a similar plugin. The transient knob is a helpful feature. I haven't seen it on other such plugins, but a parallel processing path of two console/transformer plugins could produce a similar result, where one provides the meaty warmth, and the other the more crisp dynamics.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12135

GCKelloch wrote:

Yes. Consider how to compensate for phase when using multiple mics at different distances. Simple IR's are in phase, but I'm not sure how Nebula handles it.

The mic proximity effect can be deceptive. While the low bass does get stronger when a mic is very close to the speaker, the sound is often more full back a few inches. Two phase compensated mics: one very close center or cap edge mic and one off-axis/45 degree several inches back may be a good thing to experiment with. Add a cone edge & rear cab mic and it should be almost enough for Metal. ;)

Simple flip phase switch can do the trick sometimes,and there are some who made their set to be more phase coherent to escape that problem.

Two SM57 Friedman techique are the standard,but I heard many good albums where they being using multiple mics. They alway have at least one SM57 for direct tone.Others placement and types are using to complement the tone that one finds missing in the mix.

Sometime with very good ir`s even one mic sound wonderful.It depends from Cab size/type and recording room.

Recabinet had once feature dynamics for cabs,they planning to update that feature,i`m not quite sure what the`re exactly planning but hopefully it would be improvement.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12136

I watched some amplitube 4 clips now on youtube and the new brittish amps and new cabs sounded pretty good. Maybe they finaly did some bigger changes
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12137

GCKelloch wrote:

I don't find IR's to sound muffled, and there is no reason they would be. I do find the Nebula cabs to have a realism static IR's lack.

Perhaps the Amplitude 4 cab module does that? The speaker replacement feature would indicate so.

At least i think all the time i get a more lifless sound out of pro convolver... and i tried every possible combination... i don't know what im doing wrong... but this week i've learned the aux track cab stuff and the ir from ownhammer sound great.... i tried the same approach with proconvolver... and still sounds more muffled and dull compared to other irs that i have... and no not metal genre..every single combination sounds
strange in a bad way...

Maybe im doing somehting wrong.. but strange enough i can get awesome sounds with this approach of using auxs tracks with diferent mics and cabs panned and pointed to a bus...

I still pick nebula since the playing touch feel is the biggest diference for me... and i hope someday someone create such awesome or even better "dynamic" cabinet section ... so we can use to have this "experience" of
a cabinet alive... more real sound...

Imo right now.. irs sounds and works great... oyu can get used to the way it works , but i can't turn my back to nebula since the feel and touch interaction gets better compared the static IR version...

I know i made i few mistakes about metal mics maybe... i need to try a r121 or a 421 with the sm57.. it can sounds better....
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12138

:sick:

i almost did a blind test.... but i think you guys don't like to guess and i don't like to pretend... so here you can get the audio clips same ir mic and cabinet... IR version and Nebula version...

CLEAN IR

www.mediafire.com/listen/f26djayadmm4my5/clean_ir.wav

CLEAN NEBULA

www.mediafire.com/listen/9m98zi59p8wzq6d/clean+neb.wav

ROCK IR

www.mediafire.com/listen/hlcfxpjx6n1k3n9/rock+ir.wav

ROCK NEBULA

www.mediafire.com/listen/8gni1ug3f2d8iup/rock+neb.wav

..............................................................................................................................

:gripped: NICE WEEKEND
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12140

The difference is not big on the rock sound but i can hear something more organic on nebula. I think its how nebula deal with space between the mic and the cab ;)
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12143

Daco_one wrote:

The difference is not big on the rock sound but i can hear something more organic on nebula. I think its how nebula deal with space between the mic and the cab ;)



Just like kevin from ownhammer said the diference is not that big... and as i said is not night and day... but is just like a real amp and amp sim... small diference....

there is a saying "small details makes all the diference " ...

so if i have nebula why not use it? simple as that... if someone would like to get that little something that "disconect" the guitar and player trought a real amp experience... you can get a real amp, or a nebula cab... since the sgear amp "recration" is already done...

imo if you listen to a ir and to a nebula cab... you can hear a diference... but when you PLAY TROUGHT.. a nebula cab... imo i just can't go back to using only irs... is hard because the touch is diferent.... just like oyu said the "air btween" the mic seems to appear on the nebula cabinet... you hear more wood in a good way... the cab sort of "breathes" ...

another way to use nebula besides cabs is all the other hardware related stuff... i think that a good way to get a even better sound is to use the cheap 5 pounds library from Tim P. the SCS treble and bass sampled from a vintage amp preamp... it works like the best conditioning device for a guitar inside a audio interface.. since when you plug in to a real amp you get a diferent treatment... all that ohm stuff..... impedance and so on... audio interface, DI box, but not is the same as plugin to a real amp head... and i think the scs gives a ggod approach, maybe not the best and im not saying that it changes the impedance ... but it gives a better "treatment " to my dry audio interface instrument input signal... and saturates with a good balance before hit the sgear input....
i will post some sounds next...to A/B the scs as a sort of clean boost.... since oyu can tweak the treble and bass... works like a pedal ... but is a tube amp preamp... that's the beauty of digital ... flexibility...
someone can say : hey but doing that you are doubling the preamp... " well... if sounds good... what can i do?
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12144

I know man i Will try that. I played today a Little bit and the whole low end story. I noticed today that the whole low end and fatnes is somerhing i want comming from a cab and not the preamp everybody can just crank The bass on the preamp knob. Thats why the low end is so good on nebula. But bro the only really good cabs we have is the Marshall and bogner from ownhammer the Old ones is not that good ;)
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12151

I thought I'd see how they'd sound through my Tessla Speaker Dynamics setup. It took a while to get the input set right, but the results are what I aimed for: the same spectral balance as the original and driven to right b4 it gets crunchy. You'll notice some loudness leveling, but the added harmonic dynamics come out a bit, so it's not compressed sounding. The input on the first Tessla instance is -8~9dBVU RMS. The high end might sound more natural if recorded and processed at 88.1 or 96k, but they sound good at 44.1k.

www.mediafire.com/folder/dq4ftbmlxpibm/Tessla_SpkDyn_Samples
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 10 months ago #12163

Daco_one wrote:

I noticed today that the whole low end and fatnes is somerhing i want comming from a cab and not the preamp everybody can just crank The bass on the preamp knob. Thats why the low end is so good on nebula. But bro the only really good cabs we have is the Marshall and bogner from ownhammer the Old ones is not that good ;)

The low end from the cab is diferent from the eq section of the amp... that is hard to replicate... that's why we hear the "wood" ....

by the way i think we have other geems... from Henry Olonga.... nice amps and cabs... he have a nice and a really cool capture from a JCM900... only the amp head... and if you use it after the sgear amp for example you can add that little extra tube feel to your sound... i will post some clips showing the beauty of that library.. and i paid 50 cents of a pound... :dry: define a "steal" ...

you have the sort of "soul " of a great tube head... if you don't have a real one... which is my situation... and give that mojo to the amp sim in use... and i think it really change the sound in a good way....

i will post some clips in a few day.... today i only will show what a pedal from nebula can add to the tone... or at least try to show... :P


check this video it ilustrate better my way of using the jcm900 just for a "mojo" ... option.





peace my friend!
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 10 months ago #12164

GCKelloch wrote:

I thought I'd see how they'd sound through my Tessla Speaker Dynamics setup. It took a while to get the input set right, but the results are what I aimed for: the same spectral balance as the original and driven to right b4 it gets crunchy. You'll notice some loudness leveling, but the added harmonic dynamics come out a bit, so it's not compressed sounding. The input on the first Tessla instance is -8~9dBVU RMS. The high end might sound more natural if recorded and processed at 88.1 or 96k, but they sound good at 44.1k.

Hey mister Greg... nice share .. i like what the tesla did do the sound... it sounds very natural... i think that's the reason why you love that plugin soo much !!!

it embrace the sound.... in a good way... is hard to describe sound... :blush:

but it really helps the sound to get better...

talking aobut get better... check this sound.... with a old pedal just for little saturation... is a maestro echoplex ...used like a clean boost... nebula gives that option... and i think is nice...

OFF
www.mediafire.com/listen/2tys448d7keycr2/eplex_off.mp3

ON
www.mediafire.com/listen/10k664whkkkqjvt/eplex.mp3
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 10 months ago #12169

The only little thing is that with full band,4/5 instruments sometimes+vocal and after that mix and mastering,and nobody on the planet would hear that cabs pushing.
Its thing that its not regulary heard too much,or at all in modern music except watching the band live,just on early rock records from 60/70`thies.
And if we want to guitar stay at level with other instruments and not have dynamic bouncing effect even clean tones will be compressed and sometimes heavily on some stuff,sometimes slightly..More dynamics it possess,the more its needed to level the signal to stay constant if the music is louder.
Its just way things are,I do not wanna start war.

For your own amusement it makes pretty much sense to play in room and feel that tone.
That`s there enough reason to have it.

But having more options is always a plus thing in my book,not that we have more options that ir and Nebula,its just 2. ;)
Amplitube 4 will hopefully give as another one.

Blending all those tones would give probably very interesting results.
Just choosing certain of mentioned to sit better in a mix is great philosophy there...


Know for clips,you made the very big difference in volume,so its very hard to judge how it effect the tone in off/on...We human percieve always louder as better. ;)

Cheers.
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Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Studiostriver.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 10 months ago #12176

I think i need to release better equal volume clips... this one i've tried to keep the same level...

is with the jcm900 head just for the tubes... imo sounds more "open" .. more alive...

OFF
www.mediafire.com/listen/5196m69mojjr97m...+900++OFF%282%29.wav

ON
www.mediafire.com/listen/zq0dtuv52y6zbq3/jcm+900++ON.wav
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 10 months ago #12179

gabrielscruff wrote:

I think i need to release better equal volume clips... this one i've tried to keep the same level...

is with the jcm900 head just for the tubes... imo sounds more "open" .. more alive...

OFF
www.mediafire.com/listen/5196m69mojjr97m...+900++OFF%282%29.wav

ON
www.mediafire.com/listen/zq0dtuv52y6zbq3/jcm+900++ON.wav

I suggest you in a future to look at good metering plugin,there are tone on market,and freeware as well.
Just to level it as best as possible.

And other,also try to add after eq depending on guitar tone go from 80 to 120hz high pass,and low pass from 9 to 12khz(just to add that for rhytm people do not open high end that much,mostly something between 9/10...

That way sound will become more clear,and more mix ready for later adding of effects.
Judging without that post eq to cut unwanted freq of guitar we can get also different view on how something affect the sound.

It will cut some of those unwanted runmbles you getting,also get rid of unnatural high end ,cause cabinet as we all know almost never go above 10khz..

Cheers.
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Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Studiostriver.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 10 months ago #12180

Sounded good man, kinda removes the synthetic software sound a little bit and sounds more retro. Me like!!! ;)
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