TOPIC: S gear with Nebula

S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12077

Both sound good. But the second one just sounds more realistic. You can hear that the cab responds more from the input and how hard you play. That part is the most important for me to feel that the cab is alive.

gabrielscruff yeah man just turn upp the ms on all three kernels and move them to the left. This way you are not using the static convolver but the dynamic and with higher detail in the sampling. But yeah running nebula requeries at least a i7 cpu what i think but some i5 can work with tweaking but overall nebula can take down any cpu on the market right now. It takes time to tweak nebula settings to have good sound and no latency . Otherwise if i can not mic up a cab i will use mercurial cab when going for realistic sound ;)
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12078

Also a good guitar amp and cab for nebula spec for the cleans.

www.thesessionguitarist.com/nebula-programs.html
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12082

:frustrated: mistake alert .... i forgot to check the phase of the cabs in the nebula example... sorry... it was late...very late and i m a noob regarding cabs inside aux tracks... 1 time i've tried that setup..it sure works... check this new short clips...

IR
www.mediafire.com/listen/nyvkmbcjb0kwz7p/SULTANS+IR.wav


NEBULA
www.mediafire.com/listen/kxhv6kozs650uf7/SULTANS+NEBULA.wav


now i think i did right.... tell me what you think guys!
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12084

Daco_one wrote:

Both sound good. But the second one just sounds more realistic. You can hear that the cab responds more from the input and how hard you play. That part is the most important for me to feel that the cab is alive.

gabrielscruff yeah man just turn upp the ms on all three kernels and move them to the left. This way you are not using the static convolver but the dynamic and with higher detail in the sampling. But yeah running nebula requeries at least a i7 cpu what i think but some i5 can work with tweaking but overall nebula can take down any cpu on the market right now. It takes time to tweak nebula settings to have good sound and no latency . Otherwise if i can not mic up a cab i will use mercurial cab when going for realistic sound ;)

Mercurial all vst`s are worth gold.Cabinets sounds good but too ambient for certain stuff,catch more the room,thus they are not good for metal at all,but for more 70thies hard rock style it sound fantastic,one big minus is one mic option which is very restrictive thing for studio needs.But sometime one mic makes a job.

There`s one thing also that`s needs to get into consideration,and that is when power amp crancked high (amp volume up to 10),and when boosting with overdrive pedal amp already has a lot of natural compression in tone,thus in real world dynamic of cabs that catching the tone are very small,cause they don`t have anything to catch dynamically too much,also if you move mic close to the cone for more direct tone,it gets even more compressed.

So it all depends of what type of sound you want,but in modern metal for rhythm dynamics of cab and amp are there,but its extremely minimalistic compare to 90`s/80`s/70`s tone.Without a little bit the amp would not breed well,wth much of it it would sound weak and not enough direct and dry for tight and fast playing.

I hope someone find this useful.
Cheers.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12085

gabrielscruff wrote:

:frustrated: mistake alert .... i forgot to check the phase of the cabs in the nebula example... sorry... it was late...very late and i m a noob regarding cabs inside aux tracks... 1 time i've tried that setup..it sure works... check this new short clips...

IR
www.mediafire.com/listen/nyvkmbcjb0kwz7p/SULTANS+IR.wav


NEBULA
www.mediafire.com/listen/kxhv6kozs650uf7/SULTANS+NEBULA.wav


now i think i did right.... tell me what you think guys!

Its better!

The characteristics of cabs are the same as on previous clips...I like them both...Clearly Ir choise of cabinet has more midrange and high mid presence.
While Nebula has more low end and shimmering presence high end like from Vox/Fender cabs.

Both are good just different.Can you try to bring midrange to Nebula and harmonics of mids little more?
All clips I ever heard heard from Nebula actually so far from you they sound muffled and not breed right in that department,whenever in other it brings improvement.

Maybe you like it to sound like that,I`m just curious can you get more opened and with more lively cab harmonics?

Cheers.
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Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Studiostriver.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12093

I prefer the Nebula cabs. It's a hard to judge though, unless you run the same IR's configured with the same mics, etc through Nebula. For that type of response from static IR's without the CPU hit, try my two instance Tessla Speaker Dynamics plugin sequence here:
www.mediafire.com/folder/pyxgf2y85bx6u/Audio_Share

The “a” version is a soft as I’d want to set things – good for some higher gain sounds. Make sure to set the signal level going in for the right spectral balance without high end sharpness. It's easy enough to try out if you have a PC. I'm not sure of the internal oversampling of V.O.S. effects, but it sounds great if not driven too hard.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12104

:thumbs up: tks Greg i will try the tesla preset with a little time mate!

by the way...i tried the metal again.. check if sounds cool.... i don't know for sure how to bring more harmonic content... but i tried to balance the mics inside nebula... tried a stock preset from SGEAR wayfarer ...


IR
www.mediafire.com/listen/m3qvaio1xuxa9v5/metal+ir.wav

NEBULA
www.mediafire.com/listen/bnmq9m2rffm4w9c/metal+neb.wav

NO BASS... only gtr and drums...
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12105

gabrielscruff wrote:

:thumbs up: tks Greg i will try the tesla preset with a little time mate!

by the way...i tried the metal again.. check if sounds cool.... i don't know for sure how to bring more harmonic content... but i tried to balance the mics inside nebula... tried a stock preset from SGEAR wayfarer ...


IR
www.mediafire.com/listen/m3qvaio1xuxa9v5/metal+ir.wav

NEBULA
www.mediafire.com/listen/bnmq9m2rffm4w9c/metal+neb.wav

NO BASS... only gtr and drums...

Simply select different mic or position of the same cab till you find one that has more harmonic content in area.Every mic or placent gives different results and"awake"or"calm down" certain frequencies.

And further just play with volume bewteen two mics.

Ir very quiter...also you need to mix properly two ir`s...Usually one is needed for bottom,and for that you need to use mic placement somwewhere between the cone and sorround..and another on cap or between cap and cone..And properly mix them to get enough ammounts of low end and more direct and richer mid tone...

So this was very weak mike positions...Try these suggestions

Nubela know has clearer tone which is good,but you start to getting booming effect in low end which is not good,but it not causing a big problems,just mud and rumble littl bit guitar tone and mix...

The same suggestion I have on ir you should try on Nebula also...
Adjusting on different cabs/mics/positions/level between then bringing drastically different results.

Anyway you getting better...
Best regards.
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Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Studiostriver.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12107

I played around a little bit with nebula and eq. I know when i use the amp and mic up the cab i also get a lot of hard low end. Thats just what real cabs produce comparable with software and ir cab. Thats why a lot of producers in a more rock/pop context turn the low cut up 200 hz with real cabs. So nebula reminds me very much of miking up real cabs and the whole eq process for that. I tried now to put some 200hz low cut on nebula and still sound organic punchy and fun, but thats just me ;)

gabrielscruff can you try some metal with dist pedal and ownhammer poweramp ?
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12108

Standing beside cabs,and recording it in studio are two totally different things.
In studio what you hear in recording room,and what producer is captured through mics are totally different tones.

Like in real world how you adjusting the mics and what type of mics you using affect the tone dramatically.You will get all the bassy tones all the time if you do not know what you`re doing,or having lack of right mics/preamps for certain tone.

One of standard classics in metal music is using two mics extremely close,and very often use Friedman technique,two SM57,one on cone,and other off axis side..

With these configuration setup mics catches very good transients in rhythm and filter away all unwanted bass frequencies,and get very straight and compressed tone.

Another example of good tone,not metal thou,but hi gain:


Take into consideration that he miked a cab very differntly that metal players do,
still tone is full,but very lively,open and full of harmonics.

Adjust mics changing eq curve better then you would do in post processing.

If you do that right,with post eq you need just subtle corrections.

But it also depends of amp,and type of cab..Some are problematic on certain frequencies.


Just use the same methods like in real world and you`re good to go.

On internet there are tones of useful info for certain music styles how to mike cabs to learn as starting point.

And also how big is room where cabs are recorded affect tone very much...
Metal musicians use very small rooms ,sometimes completelly small isolated to get as much dry sound as they coul get from a cab...


So watch manual/webistes for some additional info of Nebula cabs or irs in what rooms exaclty they were recorded...


It gets little geeky,but that is how it is..
Good luck.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12113

Yeah i was talking about the low that mic captures in the studio and not standing and listning by the cab. But yeah i think the music tastes depends very much on the approach the sound. The video is very good but that for me is too distorted. I barely play metal now days i go for a acdc or some 70s tone so much vintage overdrive stuff and some strange indie stuff with screaming reverby guitars. But if i go for metal its very much old thrash stuff i want with some heavy guitars. So music style has a lot to do with how we record.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12114

Steve Stevens seems like is a good dude. 'Ratt' was one of the few 80's “hair” bands I liked, largely because of his melodic solos and funky rhythm playing. He was like an 80's Slash...with better chops. Lol. I also liked that they seemed not to take themselves too seriously. I liked 'Judas Priest' for that reason. Rock music should be fun. That's a really nice old school inspired Marshall sound – more meaty and grungy than the JC800 sound, but with good note definition.

Edge micing can add another dimension to a mic mix. Guitar speakers “beam” at the edges, so there's a focused upper-mid sound there – good for multi-mic'd Metal mayhem.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12116

GCKelloch wrote:

Steve Stevens seems like is a good dude. 'Ratt' was one of the few 80's “hair” bands I liked, largely because of his melodic solos and funky rhythm playing. He was like an 80's Slash...with better chops. Lol. I also liked that they seemed not to take themselves too seriously. I liked 'Judas Priest' for that reason. Rock music should be fun. That's a really nice old school inspired Marshall sound – more meaty and grungy than the JC800 sound, but with good note definition.

Edge micing can add another dimension to a mic mix. Guitar speakers “beam” at the edges, so there's a focused upper-mid sound there – good for multi-mic'd Metal mayhem.

Yes.the tone is like Marshall JC800 but more crunch and warmness in tone.He really knows what he`s doing. :) Steve Stevens is fo rme one of the best,and still very cool dude,down to earth person,and very knowledgeable musician.

I laso like when rock musicians ar enot too serious,but love that they play seriously good.

And,yes I agree with mic techniques.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12117

Daco_one wrote:

Yeah i was talking about the low that mic captures in the studio and not standing and listning by the cab. But yeah i think the music tastes depends very much on the approach the sound. The video is very good but that for me is too distorted. I barely play metal now days i go for a acdc or some 70s tone so much vintage overdrive stuff and some strange indie stuff with screaming reverby guitars. But if i go for metal its very much old thrash stuff i want with some heavy guitars. So music style has a lot to do with how we record.

Well,yes,and no at the same time.You can have the taste and still not have knowledge for what certain style something sound good.

How tone sounds raw when they are record has nothing to do how they sound on album that is fully mixed and mastered.That can fool a lot.At least I had that problem when I first start seriously into those things,back then.

Even as a drummer I liked certain style of drum snares,and cymbals that to me sounded gorgeus but simply do not cut for metal music at all.I had to buy what works better for that,in spite of my personal taste at that time,and learn to appreaciate and noticing different quallites that works in context my music genre,and in that process even changing my taste cause of that.
That can sometimes leads to changing or adapt a technique of playing for some stuff.

And I was quite shocked how tones of raw guitar sounded"bad"in compare in produced song and how I imagine them to sound...

For thrash metal you need to have very agressive tone that has commanding voice.
Warmer metal tones were back in 80thies NWOBHM and very early thrash when technology couldn`t quite achieve what they wanted to sound.You can make music in those style but that is considering retro and not so metal for today standards.

Taste play big role I agree,but I would say even more knowledge,cause it shaping and changing your taste in a process.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12120

Yeah we can talk day and night about this whatever works for you ;)
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12121

Daco_one wrote:

Yeah we can talk day and night about this whatever works for you ;)
I felt there`s lack of info for Gabriel bro on mic placements.No one here talked on this post about this matter.
Post is long for about year I think.

And I shared some valuable info.That thing`s are crucial and universal for adjusting cab mics.Without getting into it,whatever works for you is not very helpful for somehow who is making demos and asking our opinion for very long time.

I also put insights too take into consideration what someone hears in a room/on stage vs recorded raw sound vs mic techniques vs mix/mastering tone...

I just wanted to help.And hope Grabriel with get inspired a little bit on putting my words of my own learning experience on this matter,also giving some directions.

For further investigation there are on internet recorded isolated sounds of guitars from various artists,and raw guitar track demos.It should be great starting point as well.

Hearing how actual raw or isolated tracks sound (for certain genres)without other instruments and production will be of great help.

I personally everyday learn ,or try to learn something new with discussing on various sites with various people.
And I`m not afraid to to admit if I do not know something in discussion that would help me for my personal"whatever works for me" voyage.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12122

Yes all of this talk is good and very constructive ....

i like to hear other people's ideas so i can learn even more since im not the "center of universe and all knowledge guy" i learn EVERY SINGLE DAY ...

To be honest i've learn how MAKE IRS sound good this month... LOL... i always hate irs since they sounded muffled ...

I think for high gain the diference between IRs and NEBULA ... is not night and day... i think nebula is lively... but if your only and main thing is metal..you can stick to irs and your good to go no need to expend more money on nebula and buy some packs...

But for medium gain and for cleans... the diference is bigger... since the DYNAMIC factor appears a lot more... in a heavy distortion metal tone the dynamics fade.. just like Studio mentioned..dynamics is for pussies... so im a big pussy myself.. because i love low to medium gain... and some classic rock n roll sound..

here you can listen to the SAME PROCESS (IRS AND EQ) IR and NEBULA
IR
www.mediafire.com/listen/2s6l7lmkczy5g1r/WAY+IR%282%29.wav

NEBULA
www.mediafire.com/listen/o6a62b64w1240g8/WAY+NEBMAX%282%29.wav

daco i already posted a disto pedal with power amp in this tread but since i don't remember the right one.. when i have time i'll try to work on something...

i love the idea to work with a template that involves aux tracks for the cabs.. i can get better results that way... soundwise... you guys shouls try that out to!

i create one track and put sgear wayfare with a stock preset the high gain something... with cabs and effects bypassed

i create 2 aux tracks... that receive the sgear track signal.... PRE FADER selected

one aux track have a condenser with just a little eq...

the other aux track have a sm57 with just little eq....

i pan one to the left and the other to the right ....

and send both aux tracks to a bus.... were i can apply my effects and so on ...

works great
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12124

Studiostriver wrote:

Daco_one wrote:

Yeah we can talk day and night about this whatever works for you ;)
I felt there`s lack of info for Gabriel bro on mic placements.No one here talked on this post about this matter.
Post is long for about year I think.

And I shared some valuable info.That thing`s are crucial and universal for adjusting cab mics.Without getting into it,whatever works for you is not very helpful for somehow who is making demos and asking our opinion for very long time.

I also put insights too take into consideration what someone hears in a room/on stage vs recorded raw sound vs mic techniques vs mix/mastering tone...

I just wanted to help.And hope Grabriel with get inspired a little bit on putting my words of my own learning experience on this matter,also giving some directions.

For further investigation there are on internet recorded isolated sounds of guitars from various artists,and raw guitar track demos.It should be great starting point as well.

Hearing how actual raw or isolated tracks sound (for certain genres)without other instruments and production will be of great help.

I personally everyday learn ,or try to learn something new with discussing on various sites with various people.
And I`m not afraid to to admit if I do not know something in discussion that would help me for my personal"whatever works for me" voyage.

Yeah but we dont need to pretend that we know everything which some people do so i just want to keep it open by saying that IT works different for different people anything wrong With that people have different opinon ;)
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12125

Daco_one wrote:

Yeah but we dont need to pretend that we know everything which some people do so i just want to keep it open by saying that IT works different for different people anything wrong With that people have different opinon ;)

Its very kind thing to think like that. ;)
But as we learned from our previous discussion opinions are not very helpful in helping someone to learn something. We pretty much sucked there badly.

In any profession on this planet,its impossible to know everything for one human life.And it is very hard to say what that everything exactly is. ;)

But sincerely there is nothing opinionable about what I wrote on cabs and mics.

I really tried to get away from that and not put any of my personal opinions on this topic.
I talked about basics of metal miking,it`s a standard.Since nobody mentioned it I put it out for Gabriel to improve his metal tones,since he asked how to add harmonics to the tone.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12126

gabrielscruff wrote:

Yes all of this talk is good and very constructive ....

i like to hear other people's ideas so i can learn even more since im not the "center of universe and all knowledge guy" i learn EVERY SINGLE DAY ...

To be honest i've learn how MAKE IRS sound good this month... LOL... i always hate irs since they sounded muffled ...

I think for high gain the diference between IRs and NEBULA ... is not night and day... i think nebula is lively... but if your only and main thing is metal..you can stick to irs and your good to go no need to expend more money on nebula and buy some packs...

But for medium gain and for cleans... the diference is bigger... since the DYNAMIC factor appears a lot more... in a heavy distortion metal tone the dynamics fade.. just like Studio mentioned..dynamics is for pussies... so im a big pussy myself.. because i love low to medium gain... and some classic rock n roll sound..

here you can listen to the SAME PROCESS (IRS AND EQ) IR and NEBULA
IR
www.mediafire.com/listen/2s6l7lmkczy5g1r/WAY+IR%282%29.wav

NEBULA
www.mediafire.com/listen/o6a62b64w1240g8/WAY+NEBMAX%282%29.wav

daco i already posted a disto pedal with power amp in this tread but since i don't remember the right one.. when i have time i'll try to work on something...

i love the idea to work with a template that involves aux tracks for the cabs.. i can get better results that way... soundwise... you guys shouls try that out to!

i create one track and put sgear wayfare with a stock preset the high gain something... with cabs and effects bypassed

i create 2 aux tracks... that receive the sgear track signal.... PRE FADER selected

one aux track have a condenser with just a little eq...

the other aux track have a sm57 with just little eq....

i pan one to the left and the other to the right ....

and send both aux tracks to a bus.... were i can apply my effects and so on ...

works great

I`m very glad that I helped you in any way bro.
And yes,you know made much better tone in ir`s compare to previous ones.

They know sounds very similar and not lacking of any particular frequencies.
Both tones are good as starting point for mixing.

Even tho,please make some new clean and overdriven tones with trying different mic combinations as well.
I interested to hear that Nebula maybe on that department with finding proper cab/mic placing could be even more"improved".

I`m interested to hear it,since I considering buying Nebula for clean and overdriven tones.

And for different aux,I actually doing something similar that doing the possible very close results.
I record 2 or 4 tracks(double tracking or quad). and I made them in one big wall of sound.
Panning them differently,and putting depending of mix sometimes slight,sometimes different micing techniques,and if needed different cabs as well.

in WOS III you can mix as many as you like,there are no restrictions.I can eq/pan differently.Possibilites are endless.

Just watch out for phase issues.With involving 3 different mics or more it can problematic.

Best regards.
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