TOPIC: S gear with Nebula

S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11989

As far as electric guitar sound quality, price has little to do with it. There are sub $500 guitars that perform better than some very expensive brand names. Once the pickup is in signalk chain, guitar quality is of little consequence to the sound. It's somewhat a matter of chance with wood, but it's mainly in the hardware quality, neck properties, and neck joint. Sound construction methods don't cost any more than poor ones. Everyone knows proper methods at this point. It's even less critical for Metal, because most Metal guitars have high inductance pickups, so there generally isn't much content above ~2,5kHz to be concerned with. Strings and picks also make a significant difference, but it's mostly the amp. There are many companies cranking out great Metal guitars cheap. For my money, a Hagstrom is probably the best bet at this point. The custom truss rod design makes the neck very rigid and stable, so there is less damping than most necks. The phenolic FB has n Ebony-like sound and feel without the potential cracking problems. They also have very good hardware. I've owned a guitar with a phenolic FB for ~9 years with no problems. I cleaned and oiled it very thoroughly when I first got it, so that may have kept if from discoloring. It's very much like Ebony – maybe not a mineral-like sounding, but it really doesn't matter once electrified.

As with any guitar, you can try different pickups, but properly constructed high inductance pickups are generally all the same now that computerized auto-winding machines are commonplace. There's nothing about an expensive boutique pickup that makes it better sounding than a properly designed constructed cheap factory one. I use the term “properly”, because good results are a matter of doing things right more than using “high quality” materials. Excellent pickups are made with ~$5 in materials and good auto-winding machines. In fact, hand-winding just causes eddy-current losses. There is absolutely no advantage to it. Such myths stem from when the tension on early Fender/CBS winding machines was set too high, and bad batches went out for a few years. Most any high inductance ferrous core HB from GFS/Artec will perform well for Metal. The ceramic powered 'Crunchy Pats' are a good example, but the AlNiCo 'VEH' are quite good for some more articulation. GFS really should make some slightly lower inductance Crunchy Pats, but the VEH are close enough. You can get a defective pickup from any brand, unless fully tested before leaving the shop. Something with pole screws will be more versatile. I have several GFS HB pickups and they are quite good. My brother has had the same experience and has many more GFS pickups than I. The neck AlNiCo P90 I swapped out of my XV-585 for an AlNiCo Mini-HB was excellent, but I wanted the lower inductance HB to get the ~4.3kHz “Bell” tone. It's a superb jazz pickup with my ~170pF cable – sweet and articulate with as much high end extension as any Hi-Z ferrous core pickup can deliver. The key with any properly constructed pickup is height adjustment and capacitance load. You need to use a low capacitance cable along with the recommended pot values for standard inductance value passive pickups to get a sweet extended high end. Short low capacitance ~200pF cables were the norm in the 50's when the classic Hi-Z pickups were designed. My SC's are all Wilde brand. Design & construction method generally matters more with low inductance pickups where the high end comes through – especially for the noiseless SC designs.

BTW, “uF” is a measure of capacitance – not resistance. Guitar preamp inputs are typically 1M Ω.. Higher input Z simply damps the circuit resonance slightly less, which can be better or worse depending on the frequency of the resonance. Tube preamps have something called the “Miller Capacitance” effect, which somewhat damps the resonance and high end – I believe more so when driven harder. The S-Gear Tweak 'Hi-Cut' feature adjusted that for the amp section. It's probably designed into the preamp sections as well. Someone with more knowledge could explain it further.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11991

GCKelloch wrote:

As far as electric guitar sound quality, price has little to do with it. There are sub $500 guitars that perform better than some very expensive brand names. Once the pickup is in signalk chain, guitar quality is of little consequence to the sound. It's somewhat a matter of chance with wood, but it's mainly in the hardware quality, neck properties, and neck joint. Sound construction methods don't cost any more than poor ones. Everyone knows proper methods at this point. It's even less critical for Metal, because most Metal guitars have high inductance pickups, so there generally isn't much content above ~2,5kHz to be concerned with. Strings and picks also make a significant difference, but it's mostly the amp. There are many companies cranking out great Metal guitars cheap. For my money, a Hagstrom is probably the best bet at this point. The custom truss rod design makes the neck very rigid and stable, so there is less damping than most necks. The phenolic FB has n Ebony-like sound and feel without the potential cracking problems. They also have very good hardware. I've owned a guitar with a phenolic FB for ~9 years with no problems. I cleaned and oiled it very thoroughly when I first got it, so that may have kept if from discoloring. It's very much like Ebony – maybe not a mineral-like sounding, but it really doesn't matter once electrified.

As with any guitar, you can try different pickups, but properly constructed high inductance pickups are generally all the same now that computerized auto-winding machines are commonplace. There's nothing about an expensive boutique pickup that makes it better sounding than a properly designed constructed cheap factory set. I use the term “properly”, because good results are a matter of doing things right more than using “high quality” materials. Excellent pickups are made with ~$5 in materials and good auto-winding machines. In fact, hand-winding just causes eddy-current losses. There is absolutely no advantage to it. Such myths stem from when the tension on early Fender/CBS winding machines was set too high, and bad batches went out for a few years. Most any high inductance ferrous core HB from GFS/Arctic will perform well for Metal. The ceramic powered 'Crunchy Pats' are a good example, but the AlNiCo 'VEH' are quite good for some more articulation. GFS really should make some slightly lower inductance Crunchy Pats, but the VEH are close enough. You can get a defective pickup from any brand, unless fully tested before leaving the shop. Something with pole screws will be more versatile. I have several GFS HB pickups and they are quite good. My brother has had the same experience and has many more GFS pickups than I. The neck AlNiCo P90 I swapped out of my XV-585 for an AlNiCo Mini-HB was excellent, but I wanted the lower inductance HB to get the ~4.3kHz “Bell” tone. It's a superb jazz pickup with my ~170pF cable – sweet and articulate with as much high end extension as any high Z ferrous core pickup can deliver. The key with any properly constructed pickup is height adjustment and capacitance load. You need to use a low capacitance cable along with the recommended pot values for standard inductance value passive pickups to get a sweet extended high end. Short low capacitance ~200pF cables were the norm in the 50's when the classic Hi-Z pickups were designed. My SC's are all Wilde brand. Design & construction method generally matters more with low inductance pickups where the high end comes through – especially for the noiseless SC designs.

BTW, “uF” is a measure of capacitance – not resistance. Guitar preamp inputs are typically 1M Ω. Higher input Z simply damps the circuit resonance slightly less, which can be better or worse depending on the frequency of the resonance. Tube preamps have something called the “Miller Capacitance” effect, which somewhat damps the resonance and high end – I believe more so when driven harder. The S-Gear Tweak 'Hi-Cut' feature adjusted that for the amp section. It's probably designed into the preamp sections as well. Someone with more knowledge could explain it further.

You`re right I switched capaticance for resistance in last post..Of course,I know what both are I just mistaken while writting. :)

As far as guitar,I tought the same thing,but after playin gtones of them,and being on few famous guitar luthiers in our country and Serbia as well I found that they actually can`t make as good isntruments as you can get them in lets say Music Man or new Carvin models etc.

Its too long story for being written,but big names really have machines and people who doing their job perfectly done.Of course it happens they fail,but they replace it with new one.

And everythign counts,from wood type,its mass,shape of wood,hardware,electronic parts,everything...In expensive guitars you first of all get top quallity wood quallity and rest of parts as well.
Quallity of part makes a big deal how guitar.Its not the same if you have tremolo system with cheap metal compare to Titanium or Brass.Instruments instantly resonates 10 times better...

We could write books,better to stop there...But everything counts.And more expensive instrument is cause of expense.Mostly...But there are idiotic prices of 5000$ or above up to 15/20 000$ absurds that are unrealistic and its just brand/band name that you paying,not the quallity.

And I`ll just have to add that metal musicians catch all frequencies in rhythm sound...The whole spectrum from 80hz/100hz - till 9/12khz . Depending from guitar sound/type of sound in amp etc...

If I would cut them on 2,5khz or low pass them it would sound like total grabage.The main frequencies for making the tone metal and agressive are in upper frequencies...

The trick is to make them pleasent,otr not too harsh,but still very dominant and pronounced...

My custom made pickups know and even once I had in guitar on Bridge Di Marzio D-Sonic were very pronounced at high end...

EMG`s are very muddy compare to them.

I know there are 90thies scooped tones,but in 2015 its considering vintage nowdays and no one use it in modern metal music.
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Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Studiostriver.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11992

As long as the wood is properly dried and structurally sound, it makes very little difference to the electrified sound, and it's impossible to predict how a particular neck and body will interact regarding sustain. A very rigid neck eliminates sustain issues. Factories in Korea, Mexico, even China now use wood that's properly dried/aged and structurally sound, and the workers know what they are doing as well as to the point it matters for an electric guitar. Gibson and Fender factories were traditionally staffed by female workers who had no special training, but may have come from garment district jobs for instance, so they were good with their hands (women are typically better at fine detail work than men). The benefits of quality Luthiery don't apply to magnetically electrified instruments. Any certified luthier (and physics theories) will tell you that wood type really doesn't matter on a solid body. It's mainly the density and resin/oil/moisture content that matter. Only how the damping factor affects the string vibrations matters to the electrified sound, and less so with higher inductance/impedance pickups. Composites, plywood, plastics can all do the job just as well as or better than wood.

I used to think like you do about it until I learned more about the elements that apply. Electric guitar bridges typically have so much mass that very little of the string vibrations pass to the body. Much more vibration comes from the neck to be damped by the body. So, the bridge, neck and neck joint are much more important than the body. Titanium and Brass are softer than Steel. T6 or T7 Aluminum will perform like Titanium tone-wise for a lot less money. Stainless Steel has the most highs, so is probably best for Metal guitar – at least for the Saddles. Bridge material of course matters less than the saddles. Brass or Titanium will ring less than Steel, but also damps more high end. Stewart Macdonald sells a Gibson style T6 alloy bridge with Zinc saddles. Zinc is very hard, so it would make excellent saddle pieces, but I don't know if it's real Zinc or just cheap pot metal refereed to as “zinc”. It's probably some solid zinc alloy. More alloys are showing up in guitar related items. Strings are a good example. My Parker Nitefly V1 has Stainless saddles and a T6 or T7 bridge. That's a great combo for anything. The hard dense Saddles provide an extended high end and good sustain, while the bridge damps ringing without significantly reducing highs. The trem block is Carbon Fibre, so it really doesn't affect the sound at all. A thick Steel or Brass block might increase sustain a bit because the entire trem structure would be harder to move. I don't think the block material would matter to the tone, as long as it's at least as hard as the bridge material. You follow the logic there? I like the sweet sound brass bridges lend to my guitars with them, but my Stainless saddle guitars are better rock guitars. The Titanium thing is a good marketing scheme though. It's like the oil-in-paper capacitor thing, which actually makes no difference at all. Proper tests and physics back that statement up. You sound like you are sold on some of the hype about electric guitar technology. It all really doesn't work the way popular opinions profess.

I'm always learning more about it, and have had to discard some old beliefs. FI, I recently learned that allowing a Strat bridge to float generally improves sustain over tightening it down to the body surface. It depends on the guitar wood density, but I found it to be true with my Basswood SX-Hawk. Letting the bridge up off the body definitely opened up the sound nicely. I'm actually going to install a small door bolt under the trem springs in my Strat types at some point. It should improve sustain – not only because the trem unit will no longer vibrate, but that the tension on the front and rear of the guitar will then be more equalized, reducing asymmetrical tension damping throughout the guitar. It should produce the most sustain when pulled firmly to the bolt – we'll see. I can even set the bolt back if I want to float the trem. I've also had great results using a ~1mm thick plexiglass sheet with the center area cut out and installed in the neck pocket. It increases bass and highs a bit for a fuller sound. Of course, those benefits are made null if I hold the neck or guitar firmly.

Hi-Z pickups and de facto standard Metal EMG pickups cut off at 2~2.5kHz. That works well because the progressively sharper higher guitar harmonics would clash with the artificially generated harmonics. High gain pedals/preamp channels have filters that roll off the high end in the signal anyway. The pedals/preamps and the amp section then generate the higher harmonics. Most guitar speakers roll off sharply above 4-5kHz with the exception of some Fane speakers which roll of at ~6kHz.. JBL D & E series roll off higher, and really aren't good for high gain sounds for that reason. So, 10kHz is typically down ~30dB for most guitar speakers. You can add some harmonics back with tape saturation without it sounding harsh, but you need to know how to shape things to avoid overly emphasizing the edgy/piercing 2.5~3.5kHz range, or the brittle 5kHz range. Boosting 9~12kHz on a miked guitar sound is of little consequence, because the signal level is already down so far at that point. ~10kHz is actually a good acoustic guitar range to boost. Boosting 6~8kHz can sound sweet and sparkly on a clean to moderate gain guitar sound. I don't do Metal, so I don't know what the norm is. Lots of things can work well depending on the mix.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11993

GCKelloch wrote:


Hi-Z pickups and de facto standard Metal EMG pickups cut off at 2~2.5kHz.

i just want to see if you have experience with something like the setup from this video.... maybe i decide to put a humbucker on my strat... oyu have any good option?

i think sounds cool...

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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11994

Studiostriver wrote:

gabrielscruff,these sounds are still very low gain in compare to riff and sound for original song.
With this low it can get decent.

first thing .. i don't want to make you go down the nebula road .. just want that to be clear... but since you guys with metal experience can give a better approach on what sounds good or bad.. i don't have a lot experience with metal... but i like to improve and exercise my ears and mixing aproach...


i like to learn more of what i don't know... it helps the overall "picture" of music styles..
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11995

GCKelloch wrote:

As long as the wood is properly dried and structurally sound, it makes very little difference to the electrified sound, and it's impossible to predict how a particular neck and body will interact regarding sustain. A very rigid neck eliminates sustain issues. Factories in Korea, Mexico, even China now use wood that's properly dried/aged and structurally sound, and the workers know what they are doing as well as to the point it matters for an electric guitar. Gibson and Fender factories were traditionally staffed by female workers who had no special training, but may have come from garment district jobs for instance, so they were good with their hands (women are typically better at fine detail work than men). The benefits of quality Luthiery don't apply to magnetically electrified instruments. Any certified luthier (and physics theories) will tell you that wood type really doesn't matter on a solid body. It's mainly the density and resin/oil/moisture content that matter. Only how the damping factor affects the string vibrations matters to the electrified sound, and less so with higher inductance/impedance pickups. Composites, plywood, plastics can all do the job just as well as or better than wood.

I used to think like you do about it until I learned more about the elements that apply. Electric guitar bridges typically have so much mass that very little of the string vibrations pass to the body. Much more vibration comes from the neck to be damped by the body. So, the bridge, neck and neck joint are much more important than the body. Titanium and Brass are softer than Steel. T6 or T7 Aluminum will perform like Titanium tone-wise for a lot less money. Stainless Steel has the most highs, so is probably best for Metal guitar – at least for the Saddles. Bridge material of course matters less than the saddles. Brass or Titanium will ring less than Steel, but also damps more high end. Stewart Macdonald sells a Gibson style T6 alloy bridge with Zinc saddles. Zinc is very hard, so it would make excellent saddle pieces, but I don't know if it's real Zinc or just cheap pot metal refereed to as “zinc”. It's probably some solid zinc alloy. More alloys are showing up in guitar related items. Strings are a good example. My Parker Nitefly V1 has Stainless saddles and a T6 or T7 bridge. That's a great combo for anything. The hard dense Saddles provide an extended high end and good sustain, while the bridge damps ringing without significantly reducing highs. The trem block is Carbon Fibre, so it really doesn't affect the sound at all. A thick Steel or Brass block might increase sustain a bit because the entire trem structure would be harder to move. I don't think the block material would matter to the tone, as long as it's at least as hard as the bridge material. You follow the logic there? I like the sweet sound brass bridges lend to my guitars with them, but my Stainless saddle guitars are better rock guitars. The Titanium thing is a good marketing scheme though. It's like the oil-in-paper capacitor thing, which actually makes no difference at all. Proper tests and physics back that statement up. You sound like you are sold on some of the hype about electric guitar technology. It all really doesn't work the way popular opinions profess.

I'm always learning more about it, and have had to discard some old beliefs. FI, I recently learned that allowing a Strat bridge to float generally improves sustain over tightening it down to the body surface. It depends on the guitar wood density, but I found it to be true with my Basswood SX-Hawk. Letting the bridge up off the body definitely opened up the sound nicely. I'm actually going to install a small door bolt under the trem springs in my Strat types at some point. It should improve sustain – not only because the trem unit will no longer vibrate, but that the tension on the front and rear of the guitar will then be more equalized, reducing asymmetrical tension damping throughout the guitar. It should produce the most sustain when pulled firmly to the bolt – we'll see. I can even set the bolt back if I want to float the trem. I've also had great results using a ~1mm thick plexiglass sheet with the center area cut out and installed in the neck pocket. It increases bass and highs a bit for a fuller sound. Of course, those benefits are made null if I hold the neck or guitar firmly.

Hi-Z pickups and de facto standard Metal EMG pickups cut off at 2~2.5kHz. That works well because the progressively sharper higher guitar harmonics would clash with the artificially generated harmonics. High gain pedals/preamp channels have filters that roll off the high end in the signal anyway. The pedals/preamps and the amp section then generate the higher harmonics. Most guitar speakers roll off sharply above 4-5kHz with the exception of some Fane speakers which roll of at ~6kHz.. JBL D & E series roll off higher, and really aren't good for high gain sounds for that reason. So, 10kHz is typically down ~30dB for most guitar speakers. You can add some harmonics back with tape saturation without it sounding harsh, but you need to know how to shape things to avoid overly emphasizing the edgy/piercing 2.5~3.5kHz range, or the brittle 5kHz range. Boosting 9~12kHz on a miked guitar sound is of little consequence, because the signal level is already down so far at that point. ~10kHz is actually a good acoustic guitar range to boost. Boosting 6~8kHz can sound sweet and sparkly on a clean to moderate gain guitar sound. I don't do Metal, so I don't know what the norm is. Lots of things can work well depending on the mix.

Wood play big role in tone,do not fool yourself,even on elextric guitar.
Differecne in sound between maple and rosewood strat can hear anyone,hence it makes difference.And what is also of most important it adds certain color and character to tone.
Good quallity wood possess high density,thus it vibrates,every pore of certain type adds how sound and vibrations are passing throught the strings,starting from neck to body....
I could write an essays,but again here in Bosnia is 6 A.M.I worked very hard audio editing,and I`m little worn out for discussion.Maybe tomorrow I will have more energy to discuss...

People do no use EMG`s as they used to.I find them one trick pony,

Electric guitar has frequencies from 80 to 10/12khz... Higher frequencies are not dominant of course,but they existed,and tones without them is very much dead.Like someone threw carpet on speakers.

Main core of tone of guitar tone is actually in mids,all of kinds as I mentioned it all.But it need to be open from 9 to 12khz to put low pass filter depends on tone and mix.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11996

gabrielscruff wrote:

Studiostriver wrote:

gabrielscruff,these sounds are still very low gain in compare to riff and sound for original song.
With this low it can get decent.

first thing .. i don't want to make you go down the nebula road .. just want that to be clear... but since you guys with metal experience can give a better approach on what sounds good or bad.. i don't have a lot experience with metal... but i like to improve and exercise my ears and mixing aproach...


i like to learn more of what i don't know... it helps the overall "picture" of music styles..

Of course.I learn to mix from pop to orchestra and cinematic music for various ocassions.But my personal focus is metal.

More we learn ,more we are flexible as musicians.

For brigde I can`t recommend enough humbacker style pickup,and also to make split single coil switch or push pull,so that way you have still single coil as option for more sound variations.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11997

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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11998

gabrielscruff wrote:

check this 2 new clips..more gain ... tell me what you think?

www.mediafire.com/listen/xrscyrp6bqy050d/a1.wav

www.mediafire.com/listen/xc12kqd3dn3kdva/a2.wav

:gripped:

Second is more open,but as we stated with more gain Nebula fizz more...Both clips fizz,first more to my ears.

Gain level is know ok,just just need more drive,and on screamer pedal boost volume little bit from noon,add tone for little more tighter tone.Play with drive knob on amp and tone and volume on 808 style pedals till you find tone that have enough amount of tightness in and has enough drive to make sound more crunchy and meaty.But if it start to growl ,or put drive little bit down,or ad more tone in pedal...
More tone give more pick attack but more accent on highs...

Just play little bit,you`ll eventually came with something that sounds good to your ears.

Cheers.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #11999

the first one was nebula the second is a ir...

need to try a little more... but not is late... need to get some sleep..
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12000

Studiostriver wrote:


Wood play big role in tone,do not fool yourself,even on elextric guitar.
Differecne in sound between maple and rosewood strat can hear anyone,hence it makes difference.And what is also of most important it adds certain color and character to tone.
Good quallity wood possess high density,thus it vibrates,every pore of certain type adds how sound and vibrations are passing throught the strings,starting from neck to body....
I could write an essays,but again here in Bosnia is 6 A.M.I worked very hard audio editing,and I`m little worn out for discussion.Maybe tomorrow I will have more energy to discuss...

People do no use EMG`s as they used to.I find them one trick pony,

Electric guitar has frequencies from 80 to 10/12khz... Higher frequencies are not dominant of course,but they existed,and tones without them is very much dead.Like someone threw carpet on speakers.

Main core of tone of guitar tone is actually in mids,all of kinds as I mentioned it all.But it need to be open from 9 to 12khz to put low pass filter depends on tone and mix.

Yeah, the FB wood probably makes the most difference of any wood on an electric guitar, but it's all about how it damps the string vibrations. The type of wood is generally irrelevant. Different pieces of wood from the same tree can produce very different results. I'm not fooling myself about those factors. Density does not equate to quality. Spruce is much less dense than Ebony, but no lower “quality”. You just need consistent grained, properly dried pieces of any average density wood for the body, and more dense/hard woods for the neck and FB. Lower oil/resin/moisture damps less, so Indian Rosewood is really not a good FB wood. It just feels good, but it generally damps the highs too much. Fender players sometimes prefer it because Fender design SC pickups (other than JM pickups) sound thin, but some SC pickups have a stronger fundamental harmonic response and sweeter high end, so a high end damping FB isn't needed with those. Bill Lawrence said the character of the guitar sound is more in the upper-bass. When you think about how the bass sound in a song defines the song character, and the difference between a P90 and a hot “Strat” pickup, it makes sense. I think the sound of the pickup as a whole defines the character, but that's just me. You'll be hard pressed to find a Hi-Z type pickup that delivers much 9kHz or higher. A DiMarzio D-Sonic will generally roll off below 4kHz. ~3kHz will sound bright if emphasized, but it's rather "piercing" like an ice pick. Even ~2kHz can sound bright, but it won't be piercing. There are some lower H/Z pickups that will deliver 9kHz+, but the highs would still need to be rolled off before or after any high gain stages as not to create a cacophony of higher harmonics – as is done in many gain pedals, including the TS-808. There's nothing more I can say about that, so do whatever suites you.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12001

gabrielscruff wrote:

GCKelloch wrote:


Hi-Z pickups and de facto standard Metal EMG pickups cut off at 2~2.5kHz.

i just want to see if you have experience with something like the setup from this video.... maybe i decide to put a humbucker on my strat... oyu have any good option?

i think sounds cool...


The SD 'Little '59' is medium inductance at ~5H. With 250k pots and a ~200pF cable, the filter character should be pretty flat up to where it rolls off at ~4kHz. It would sound sweet, but articulate, which is a very good place to start. It might sound a bit tinny or dull with a higher capacitance cable. I'm assuming the internal capacitance is very low, but I don't know about the consistency of SD. The pole screws help in adjusting individual string timber. The SC aperture width means there is no high end roll off above the first few string harmonics for each string, so it will be a bit brighter than a full sized HB high rolls off the higher harmonics in comparison. The Little '59 is a popular choice, and he gets very good sounds in the video. There's really nothing special about SD pickups. Most pickups are all hype...not worth anywhere near the prices charged, but they actually need to charge more so people think they are “special”...SD is no exception. A SC width HB will sound like a well-designed stacked SC width pickup of similar inductance. The aperture width is what makes it sound more like a SC. There's no way around that, but the pole screws lend it some versatility. A Little '59 should do the trick, or look into one of the newer DiMarzio stacked or twin blade series.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12002

Studiostriver wrote:

gabrielscruff wrote:

check this 2 new clips..more gain ... tell me what you think?

www.mediafire.com/listen/xrscyrp6bqy050d/a1.wav

www.mediafire.com/listen/xc12kqd3dn3kdva/a2.wav

:gripped:

Second is more open,but as we stated with more gain Nebula fizz more...Both clips fizz,first more to my ears.

Gain level is know ok,just just need more drive,and on screamer pedal boost volume little bit from noon,add tone for little more tighter tone.Play with drive knob on amp and tone and volume on 808 style pedals till you find tone that have enough amount of tightness in and has enough drive to make sound more crunchy and meaty.But if it start to growl ,or put drive little bit down,or ad more tone in pedal...
More tone give more pick attack but more accent on highs...

Just play little bit,you`ll eventually came with something that sounds good to your ears.

Cheers.

Yes both fizz a little bit. But the second one you can hear right away that this is not a real cab. No low end and air and the sound is much more plastic then the first one. Sounds like the eq cabs in amplitube.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12005

This is a metal test with my pedal nebula power amp and nebula marshall cab. Terrible playing and 6 months old guitar strings. Just some metal test improvisation with a lot of gain from the preamp. Just raw recording with no post editing.

soundcloud.com/damir-sabanovic/metal-test
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12006

Daco_one wrote:

Yes both fizz a little bit. But the second one you can hear right away that this is not a real cab. No low end and air and the sound is much more plastic then the first one. Sounds like the eq cabs in amplitube.

If it has no low end just re adjust the tone.I do not know what to do with how much low end you can put in with good amp sims and cabs.
You cant use two cabs without readjausting the tone.

Its pretty much the easiest thing to achieve in amps sims.Almost every has too much of it issue,no one ever lacks of it.

To short the story,your tone has way too much of it also,its muddy as hell,low end is eating complete tone, and not enough of mids and highs.It would sound completely bad in any mix and leave no space for bass guitar either.


I just judge the tone,playing is not important in testing.

Guitar tone is all about mids,low mids,central,high mids.and just little bit air at 9-12hz also depending on tone.

This frequencies no one ever using,and it would fighting with bass guitar,drums and ruined the whole mix.

With more agressive metal bands,they tend to leave it to rumble just little bit,but they had to cut bass guitar to the point bass guitar start to sound thinner.You always has to sacrifice something as outcome result.
It depends of style of mixing and metal genre style.

Considering you want to achieve that little bit rumbling effect of extreme guitar,this tone still got 5 times more that will ever need.

For a start,put high pass filter over that at 80 to 120 hz depending of tone itself,and then see how it would sound after that.

The one thing I agree with you,Amplitube is all plastic by itself,especially the cabs.

Hear how Recabinet 4 have great low mids with ir`s.And sound way too much better then any Nebula I`ve heard so far.

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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12008

Studiostriver wrote:

Daco_one wrote:

Yes both fizz a little bit. But the second one you can hear right away that this is not a real cab. No low end and air and the sound is much more plastic then the first one. Sounds like the eq cabs in amplitube.

If it has no low end just re adjust the tone.I do not know what to do with how much low end you can put in with good amp sims and cabs.
You cant use two cabs without readjausting the tone.

Its pretty much the easiest thing to achieve in amps sims.Almost every has too much of it issue,no one ever lacks of it.

To short the story,your tone has way too much of it also,its muddy as hell,low end is eating complete tone, and not enough of mids and highs.It would sound completely bad in any mix and leave no space for bass guitar either.


I just judge the tone,playing is not important in testing.

Guitar tone is all about mids,low mids,central,high mids.and just little bit air at 9-12hz also depending on tone.

This frequencies no one ever using,and it would fighting with bass guitar,drums and ruined the whole mix.

With more agressive metal bands,they tend to leave it to rumble just little bit,but they had to cut bass guitar to the point bass guitar start to sound thinner.You always has to sacrifice something as outcome result.
It depends of style of mixing and metal genre style.

Considering you want to achieve that little bit rumbling effect of extreme guitar,this tone still got 5 times more that will ever need.

For a start,put high pass filter over that at 80 to 120 hz depending of tone itself,and then see how it would sound after that.

The one thing I agree with you,Amplitube is all plastic by itself,especially the cabs.

Hear how Recabinet 4 have great low mids with ir`s.And sound way too much better then any Nebula I`ve heard so far.


Yes i can agree that the bass i a little bit high. Like i said the strings are really old so the muddy part and lack of tone is a consequence of that also. Like i said NO eq or anything is aplied so you dont have to mention mixing now everybody knows that there is low cuts, high cuts and removing the muddy parts in the low mids. On this clip i never wanted to show something mix ready instead i wanted to show how more organic and alive the cab sounds with nebula and i dont get that high fizz. This was a very raw recording. I think that everybody knows that guitars is all about the mids. For me its all about making the cabs sounds like real cabs with low end body resonance and air, The static impulse has a static freq response and is not driven by the overdrive so it sounds like a dead cab. ;)

And the whole low end story. When you crank up a guitar you suppose to feel the floor moving that is not missing in nebula like it does an the other impulses. And when you have higher low cut it still have some body and resonance. With impulses it just becomes thin you dont want to remove the body. But yeah all the mixing and eq is alot of taste issues. For me in the end the most important thing is to record in a apartment and make it sound like a real cab not some plastic software distortion.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12009

GCKelloch wrote:

A Little '59 should do the trick, or look into one of the newer DiMarzio stacked or twin blade series.


Hey Greg ! i really appreciate your tips and explanation ! Really helps ! I'm thinking aobut humbucker in the bridge since the guitar gets even more versatile.... just like in that video.... you can get some awesome tones and turn your guitar into 2 or 3 .... that's what i love about strats....

By the way wat you think about this setup? I think this is another cool trick to do to the strat... new sounds...

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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12010

Daco_one wrote:

Yes i can agree that the bass i a little bit high. Like i said the strings are really old so the muddy part and lack of tone is a consequence of that also. Like i said NO eq or anything is aplied so you dont have to mention mixing now everybody knows that there is low cuts, high cuts and removing the muddy parts in the low mids. On this clip i never wanted to show something mix ready instead i wanted to show how more organic and alive the cab sounds with nebula and i dont get that high fizz. This was a very raw recording. I think that everybody knows that guitars is all about the mids. For me its all about making the cabs sounds like real cabs with low end body resonance and air, The static impulse has a static freq response and is not driven by the overdrive so it sounds like a dead cab. ;)

And the whole low end story. When you crank up a guitar you suppose to feel the floor moving that is not missing in nebula like it does an the other impulses. And when you have higher low cut it still have some body and resonance. With impulses it just becomes thin you dont want to remove the body. But yeah all the mixing and eq is alot of taste issues. For me in the end the most important thing is to record in a apartment and make it sound like a real cab not some plastic software distortion.

Well to me it doesn`t sound like a real cab at all.It just sound different then ir`s. No better in any way,for the sound you made.
You get no fizz in sacrifize to get muddy tone which possess no focus.It still sound artifical even without a fizz.

If you know the tone is mids,which obiously everybody knows,their adjusting tells something different very often.That`s why I wrote it.

Ir`s tend to sound one dimensional,that everybody knows so also,but with applying two or three impulses that pretty much makes it much better and very realistic..With careful ammount of mixing them into one wall of sound tone of course.
Recording 2/3 tracks with different ir`s makes it finding missing harmonics you lack in other etc...
I guess everyone knows that two.

I would still love to have focus of ir`s in compare to Nebula`s cabs which to me brings nothing actually for Hi gain tone. Tone is not precise enough and very muddy to my taste.

I just saying what I hearing.
If it sounds any good or convincing I would immediately said,and embrace it as a superior.

I am know even more sure there is nothing in it,to suits my personal tone needs.
And you can`t deny that Recabinet 4 in the mix sounds very good.




They all sound without a focus.

But I`m human being,I could be very wrong,that are just my impressions on Nebula so far.
If you find time make a whole mix tone with Nebula cabs.
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12011

Daco_one wrote:

This is a metal test with my pedal nebula power amp and nebula marshall cab. Terrible playing and 6 months old guitar strings. Just some metal test improvisation with a lot of gain from the preamp. Just raw recording with no post editing.

yep sounds much better ! i think that the real preamp helps to avoid some hiss .... since even the ir example of mine have a little hiss ... i think the amp sim head actually have some hiss into high gain territory...

more exercise need to experiment with other amp sims ..... is cool to try to lear this new metal stuff... :feeling it:
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S gear with Nebula 3 years 11 months ago #12012

gabrielscruff wrote:

GCKelloch wrote:

A Little '59 should do the trick, or look into one of the newer DiMarzio stacked or twin blade series.


Hey Greg ! i really appreciate your tips and explanation ! Really helps ! I'm thinking aobut humbucker in the bridge since the guitar gets even more versatile.... just like in that video.... you can get some awesome tones and turn your guitar into 2 or 3 .... that's what i love about strats....

By the way wat you think about this setup? I think this is another cool trick to do to the strat... new sounds...


There are really plenty of options to choose for strat.Of what woods you guitar is made of?What model of strat you using?And for what music genre of music you intend it to use?

If you give me that info,I could find few options for you to consider and take a peak on You Tube etc.
Of course if you want. :)

Cheers.
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