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TOPIC: New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones

New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21624

New to the forum, signed up because I found a Youtube video where the guy (Ben) was getting some really nice tones from S-Gear, and I can't seem to accomplish that. It lead to a question being asked about using a high impedance interface connection, and the rabbit hole associated with that :)

Anyway, I figured I'd use the opportunity to search this forum, and I found a few posts related to impedance, but not many. Some are mentioning a boost/buffer in front of the interface, but it isn't entirely clear why.

So, that leads to my question: what interfaces are available that have the proper impedance level optimal for S-Gear?

I'm currently using a Yamaha THR amplifier, which doubles as an interface, but lacks certain things a standard USB interface would have like input levels/level monitoring. Since it's likely a Steinberg interface built in, the best I could find for info was 4KΩ on the mic inputs, and 20KΩ on the line inputs. From my searching here, the suggestion is to use either another box in front of the amp (Sunday Driver or Radial Pro48 DI), or get a "real" interface with the proper input/output impedance to give what S-Gear needs to sound its best.

Current chain: Guitar>Yamaha THR>USB into laptop. I'm running S-Gear stand alone most times, other times using it as a virtual instrument in Reaper.

Sorry for the long intro post, just getting all if the info out there for discussion. Thanks for reading!

JM
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by canyonero.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21625

I think 1 mega ohm is a good minimum impedence to look for so good budget/midrange options are Focusrite Scarlett, the Motu M2/M4 and the Behringer UMC404HD
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21626

Hi,

AXE I/O could be useful for your aims
Try to take a look at: www.ikmultimedia.com/products/axeio/

You can change the impendance from 1 MOhms down to 2.2 kOhms (Passive) and 10 kOhms (active)

I'm pretty happy with this audio interface (in terms of tone, much better than my previous Focusrite 8i6 3rd Gen)
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21628

Welcome JM.

I have used the Presonus AudioBox iOne for about 7-8 years without issue. It sounds great, and I can get solid tones from S-Gear. The only thing is I average about 14ms latency into a MacBook Pro.

The AXE I/O listed above looks very promising. I wonder what the latency is on this device?
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Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by ryentzer.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21629

ryentzer wrote:

I wonder what the latency is on this device?

I'm curious about this as well, but I like what I've read so far. I like the adjustable input impedance. More options than just a set level. Sweetwater/IK is giving away their Amplitube Max bundle with an interface right now, but since I've purchased S-Gear I'd like to stick with it and get the tones I hear in my head. If I give myself too many options I'll spend forever looking for "that tone" :)

I'm willing to get whatever gear is necessary to get the best sounds, so if that means a new interface and an outboard buffer/DI as well, that's what I'll do, but I look forward to other responses on the topic. I'd rather not haul around extra "stuff" if I want to go record somewhere else than my home studio, but the best tone is what I'm after.
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by canyonero.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21630

Hi, here some info about the lacency in Studio One 4.x Pro (AXE I/O)
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Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by Fluvio70.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21632

I would expect the Yamaha THR to have suitable high impedance input so I am not convinced about that being the issue here. There could be some other issue with using the THR as an audio interface, not having any input level control? Does anyone else have experience of using the THR?

Are you using the THR to monitor? or are you using headphones?

Try swapping out your cables if you have not already done so. It is surprising how often a bad cable can catch us out.

Also, if you can record some of the sounds you are achieving? Perhaps using standard presets, this might at least help determine if what you are hearing is obviously wrong or subjective.
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Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by mike.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21634

Hi Mike,

I was hoping this would get to you, and thank you for your reply.

I've looked for a couple of days now and cannot seem to find the input specs on the amp itself. It uses a Steinberg audio driver, so I'm assuming its their lower end interface inside the amp at that price point. I can't see any way to measure the impedance manually, as it tests open with a multi-meter on the input jack with a cable connected.

I've used multiple cables, one which is new, and tests 0.4Ω on the tip side, and 0.5Ω on the sleeve, so no issues there.

I've monitored through the THR speakers, the THR Headphone jack, and the laptop headphone jack, with no change in results. I've also used 3 different guitars (1 Strat with EMGs,1 Les Paul with stock humbuckers, and 1 Strat that I've just rewired for two P90 pickups) all with similar results.

I'll see about putting together some sound samples of what I'm hearing on my end, as I know it has to be something with my current setup. The Ben McLeod video sounds wonderful, so I know what the software is capable of. Just need to figure out the missing piece of my particular puzzle. I've started with preset 43, Roy's Dream, just like in Ben's Video, and the sound I'm getting lacks treble and dynamics, no matter if I use the IR that's in the preset, or trying multiple others. It sounds lacking compared to what I'm hearing in the video through headphones. Even the stock THR sounds through headphones are much brighter and have more detail. Thanks again for your input.

JM
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by canyonero.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21635

FWIW, The AXE I/O is (on sale?) $279.99 currently on Musicians Friends and Guitar Center. I'm trying to get my Sweetwater rep to match. :)
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21636

Let me know if you have any luck :)

I was looking at Sweetwater as well, too bad the solo unit isn't available yet. If they will match I may pull the trigger anyway just to have a better interface. I emailed my SW rep as well.
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by canyonero.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21637

File Attachment:

File Name: 7cb7fa8f518e48a49ce24c73cb0ff4ae
File Size: 838 KB


Ok, here's a quick audio file demonstrating what I'm hearing.

Chain: mid 90's Les Paul Standard (stock, no mods)>Yamaha THR amp/DI out>Reaper with S-Gear as a virtual instrument.

Using Preset 43 - Roy's Dream with Delay and Reverb off, but the rest of the preset remains the same.

I have a hard time describing the sound, but it's almost like a sitar type sound underneath the main chords. Especially on the G and Asus4(?) chords in the example. Maybe I'm crazy... :)

I have no ability to adjust any levels on the Yamaha THR, so the DI signal is just what it is. I do notice that the input level seems a little low as indicated on the meters in the left hand corner of the S-Gear I/O panel, but since I haven't used any other interface I don't know if this is normal or not. I get the same sound if I'm running S-Gear standalone as well.

Thanks for sticking with me while we figure this out. I keep documenting in case this will be helpful for someone else in the future.

Thanks,

JM
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Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by canyonero.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21638

It seems convenient :woohoo:

Price in Italy is around 355 euros (IK Multimedia is based in Italy)
Here in the UK £344

$279.99 is a very good price; keep in mind that there are two different interfaces

AXE I/O
AXE I/O solo (Z-tone included but there are less I/O ports)
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21639

I'm not hearing anything obviously wrong here. The Les Paul could be driving the amp a little harder than Ben's guitar, backing off the guitar volume slightly could address this and give you more articulation. Ben didn't play a lot of chords with the stock preset, mostly he was playing lead lines which show the articulation in the sound nicely. A fresh set of strings makes a big difference too?
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21640

Man, I was hoping this would be as obvious as it sounds to me, particularly on the G and B strings where this unpleasant sound underneath the main guitar sound is. If you listen to a sitar on YouTube really quick, and come back to the sound example I posted, I hear it clear as day. I don't hear it just using the built in amp sounds by themselves, only when I'm using it as an interface into S-Gear. I may try some other amp sims just to see if it happens then. The only other interface I have here is firewire only so no-go on my windows computer. Plus that interface is dedicated to my vocal/voiceover booth and is separate from the guitar playing hobby :)

oh, and the strings are maybe 2 weeks old with not a whole lot of playing time, and I hear that same on my other two guitars, one with 2 or 3 day old strings.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21641

I have my own Sitar so I don't need to reference YouTube for that ;)

I hear some intermodulation in the distortion but this is not unusual and the Roy's Dream preset has power amp clipping which is can be characteristically unruly.

Probably you should contact me via support and send the recorded DI files along with the rendered files where you think it best shows the problem you are hearing.
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Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by mike.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 4 months ago #21642

Mike has a sitar, and now I'm jealous :)

I'll have to record another file, as I just rendered the original to an mp3 and didn't save the project. I'll record another project and contact you via support.

Thanks Mike!

JM
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 3 months ago #21668

Just a quick update, haven't had a chance to do another recording yet, but I tried 3 other amp sims briefly this weekend and hear the same thing in varying degrees on each of those, with Bias having the least issues, but still there. I'm leaning towards my "amp as an interface" being the culprit, but I'm going to do some more testing when I have time.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 2 years 2 weeks ago #22053

Same problem here, used a different interface and different headphones and everything got better, but i cannot get the strong dynamics those guys get with the same presets, they blow the strings and the notes comes alive, i need to push very hard with mi pick to get a decent sound.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 10 months 2 days ago #23231

Same problem to me, something is working obviously wrong;
I've tried to upgrade my audio interface from m-audio 2x2 to IK MULTIMEDIA AXE/IO...
tried 12 (twelwe) different guitars with humbucker and singlecoil, six different cables (premium grade quality).
Tried at 48 and 96k sample rate.
Tried to upgrade s-gear to the latest version, but none of this attemps seems to have effect.
Tried to set input level on audio interface from -20 to -3 db .....
Poor dynamics , strange sitar tones and "fret buzz" like noises.... (more noticeable on overdiven tones)

Amplitube (which comes in bundle with interface) works correctly, I'have lot of dinamic and sustain and no weird tones even in highly overdriven tones.
It sound like the marvellous demos of S-gear seen on youtube.
Could someone give me any suggestion?
Thank a lot
Davide.
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New to S-Gear, struggling with getting good tones 9 months 4 weeks ago #23233

dmagon wrote:

strange sitar tones and "fret buzz" like noises.... (more noticeable on overdiven tones)

Aliasing or ghost tones might suggest a configuration mismatch between the software and the ASIO driver, but it would be very unusual. An audio sample would be helpful so we can hear what you are hearing.

Make sure you have the latest ASIO drivers for the device. Check that you have a clean guitar signal through the audio interface with all S-Gear processing bypassed. You're welcome to contact me via support .
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