TOPIC: Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1

Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 3 days ago #21940

Hi all,

Sorry for the very basic question but I've spend days and days trying to figure this out without success.
I'm using S-Gear VST with Ableton Live 10.1, and I wanted to switch to VST3 since now both programs support it.

I've heard that VST3 is supposed to expose the presets directly to the DAW, but I can't figure out where they are in Ableton (so I am forced to open the GUI and select them there). In addition, MIDI is not directly routed anymore to the plug-in, so finding these exposed presets is essential in order to use my MIDI controller (and automation).

I can access these exposed presets with Reaper without any problem, but my workflow and live setup is with Ableton so I'd really like to find a solution to this.

Any input or suggestion is appreciated!
Orfeo
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Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 2 days ago #21941

Hello Orfeo,

Unfortunately there is no way to directly share DAW settings between the S-Gear VST2 and VST3 because the DAW sees them as two different plug-ins. You need to use the S-Gear preset system to share presets between a VST2 and VST3 instance.

Regarding MIDI support in the plug-in, the VST3 specification did not originally include any support for MIDI, hence lack of MIDI capability in the plug-in. The intention with VST3 is that the plug-in is controlled via automation and the DAW does any mapping of MIDI messages to Plug-in Parameters. That said, there is now some support in VST3 for MIDI Controller messages but we have not implemented this.

Mike
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Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 2 days ago #21943

Hi mike,

Thank you for your reply and most of all for this amazing piece of software! I did ask my question in a confusing way, apologies. I'm not trying to move DAW settings between VST2 and VST3, but I'm simply trying to access the S-Gear factory presets (and the few I created myself in S-Gear itself) from Ableton.

I thought said presets were supposed to be exposed to the DAW, but I can't find them anywhere in the DAW interface itself. I need to open the VST3 GUI and manually select the preset I want, but in this way the presets are not accessible from the Ableton Live automation machinery.

I hope my question is a little bit clearer and I apologize if I'm either misunderstanding your reply, or if I'm asking something so basic I should feel embarrassed :)

Orfeo
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Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 1 day ago #21946

I don't use Live often, but I tried a number of VST3 plugins and none of them had the preset drop-down appear, while their VST2 versions did. Although a few had the inbuilt presets show up by expanding the plugin in the plugin list (.vstpreset files). Have you seen any VST3 show the presets n Live?
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Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 1 day ago #21947

Good point kierank, I checked the only other VST3 plug-in I have (Analog Lab) and I can't find the factory presets there either!

Must be some Live thing then. For now I'm just loading all the presets in different instances of S-Gear inside an Audio Rack, but I wonder how much I can push this without everything becoming unstable.
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Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 1 day ago #21948

Hi Orfeo,

S-Gear VST3 exposes a Program List to the DAW which is simply the current S-Gear bank. It's really just a way to allow the DAW to select presets from the currently loaded bank. I did ponder over whether S-Gear should always expose the 'Factory' presets, or whether it is more useful to expose the current bank, I decided on the latter since in S-Gear v2.9 the Factory Preset/Bank are essentially no different to any other Preset/Bank, except they can be restored if you wish.

With regard to how you access Program Lists in Ableton, I'm not sure if Ableton implements this feature of VST3. I recall that some DAW's do not.

-Mike
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Presets and VST3 in Ableton Live 10.1 1 week 1 day ago #21949

Hi mike,

Indeed it seems Ableton has not implemented that feature. I just didn't know that was a possibility, since it seems like a basic thing to have :)

There is not much in the way of VST3 documentation in the manual, but I did find something regarding AU presets in this article https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209775145-AU-preset-handling-in-Live-9 , which is very suggestive to the way the guys at Ableton want you to interact with plug-in presets.

The suggested solution seems to be to access the presets first in the plug-in UI and then save them as a Ableton presets. This works for VST3---the saved presets are named *.vstpreset and can be handled/automated in the usual way.

It is a bit cumbersome of course, because one has to save presets twice (in S-Gear and in Ableton) to keep things synchronized, but it works.

Thanks for the help to you and kierank both!

Orfeo
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