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TOPIC: S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7

S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20548

Hello everybody,

I've just read in the S - Gear 2.9 FAQ that Windows 10 will be the "officially" required OS in order to run
S - Gear in its latest version . My question is : will this just be the optimal and officially supported
way to run the 2.9 version or will it rather be ( is it ) a case of not being able to install and run the software under Windows 7 ? I don't mean to induce any sterile polemic on the forum and I assume that Windows 10 is now "the only way to go" for most all software developers ; I'd just like to know if there might be any chance for 2.9 as it was conceived and developed ( as it is and meant to be without any further (impossible) adjustment ) to run on my anacronically Windows 7 based DAW (meaning here audio generating, processing and recording devoted PC full of adhoc software ... sigh ...) ... Thank you very much !!!
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Last edit: 3 weeks 1 day ago by yurodivi. Reason: I want to make clear that I totally would/will understand and accept the Windos 10 only way
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20549

yurodivi wrote:

I assume that Windows 10 is now "the way to go" for most software developers
May I ask you what exactly is forcing you to stay with Win 7?

Win 10 is a much better OS, which uses memory a lot better, use far less resources and boost audio performance with every DAW I know, compared with Win 7.

Well...?
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20552

As Yurodivi hasn't answered yet here's my story:

Quite simply my old PC's onboard graphics (final update was 2013) can't cope with Windows 10 and there's no available slot for a 3rd party graphics card. Problems I had with Cubase, Waves and Mixcraft were all graphics related.
However, everything works like a dream with Windows 7 x64 - the PC is offline so no antivirus, firewall, Antimalware to slow things down. The only problem I have is that S-Gear is being blacklisted in Cubase 10, as others have mentioned here. Mike is aware of the problem and assures us that it will be resolved in v2.9.

So I really would like to know if v2.9 will run smoothly on Windows 7 x64 as I have neither plans nor funds for replacing my PC, although Mike has mentioned the possibility of giving us a fix for the current version which would be great.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20553

So I really would like to know if v2.9 will run smoothly on Windows 7 x64...
I'd like to know that, too :-)
I've build a small custom PC (with some dedicated hardware controls) into a flightcase for to use it on stage only with Scuffham Amp. This one is runnig on Win7 and runs very well - exept from the drawback that Scuffham GUI is not scaleable. As I read, this issue will be addressed in v2.9. That's great!
So following the rule "never change a running system" I'd like to stay here on Win7 as long as possible and can hopefully use the new SA Version ...
Best, Bernd
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20554

Foster wrote:

The only problem I have is that S-Gear is being blacklisted in Cubase 10, as others have mentioned here.

S-Gear v2.7 should not be blacklisted by Cubase.
Make sure that Cubase 10 is only scanning the 64bit S-Gear Dll.

Cubase 10.0.20 and later does not render the S-Gear GUI correctly (on Windows). A workaround is to disable and re-enable the plug-in instance after opening the GUI.

Mike
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20555

I use 7 as well and do not plan to go on 10 at least in next 2 year.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20558

The 64-bit plugin was definitely being blacklisted by Cubase 10.0.40 when I used Windows 10 (I have dual-boot Windows 7 and 10) but not with Windows 7. Cubase gave the option of reactivating S-Gear at my own risk which I did. It then worked, albeit half-white, but appeared in the plugin list in red which I wasn't too happy about. By the way, in spite of my old system, it's the only plugin that has been blacklisted by Cubase 10, although Cubase itself had some odd mini graphics problems of its own,

I gave up on WIndows 10 at that point and moved everything to Windows 7 - as I said earlier my computer's onboard graphics aren't that great. S-Gear still has the half-white thing going on in Windows 7 but it's easy enough to circumvent the problem. It'd be nice to have a fix though...
Last edit: 3 weeks 1 day ago by Foster.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20559

Hello, LtKojak...

Well ... As I own a 3rd party tool for Windows backup and restore I did dare to try a Windows 10 install on my DAW computer a few months ago ...
I think I tried the option of "updating" my W7 Pro as it was ( with all the software and stuff ) and the resulting system was noticeably slower ( though not so much more ) and more prone to crackles with audio plug-ins ...

I think I also tried a clean Windows 10 install with a couple of Vsti's and the results were much the same ...

I bought that desktop computer on 2011, used it for a while, and then it remained unused for a few years until 2018 because my place was a mess and I went back to using an older Windows Vista laptop.

Bear in mind though that this old 2011 desktop is built upon an Intel Core i7 3'8 Ghz 2600K processor with AVX support and also 16 GB RAM and two 1 Gigabytes SSD's ...
The audio interface is a RME Babyface and I try to stick to the 44Khz 128 samples ( around 8.4 ms latency on NI Reaktor, for instance) setting under W7 mostly successfully ...

So the short answer is that I'm afraid I might run into latency problems with soft synths and other VST's under Windows 10 and, of course, the hassle of reinstalling things like Komplete 12 Ultimate Collector's Edition, IK Multimedia Syntronik, and quite a few more pieces of software and tuning the whole system to my content ...

Sorry for the long version ...

Cheers ...
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Last edit: 3 weeks 1 day ago by yurodivi. Reason: I forgot to quote mi interlocutor ... Never mind ....
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20560

mike wrote:

Foster wrote:

The only problem I have is that S-Gear is being blacklisted in Cubase 10, as others have mentioned here.

S-Gear v2.7 should not be blacklisted by Cubase.
Make sure that Cubase 10 is only scanning the 64bit S-Gear Dll.

Cubase 10.0.20 and later does not render the S-Gear GUI correctly (on Windows). A workaround is to disable and re-enable the plug-in instance after opening the GUI.

Mike

Did I say something wrong ? Sure it wasn't my intention ...
As I've stated I'd just like to have the information since I've installed and run successfully some ( not all of them ) of the audio soft that declare a Windows 10 only compatibility ...

Cheers ...
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 1 day ago #20561

yurodivi wrote:

My question is : will this just be the optimal and officially supported
way to run the 2.9 version or will it rather be ( is it ) a case of not being able to install and run the software under Windows 7 ?

Hello yurodivi,

I don't have a final answer for you at the moment. I will evaluate legacy support for Windows 7 once we're clear of all Windows 10 testing. As you read in the FAQ, it won't be a supported OS, although as many of our customers know, we would never hold back from doing what we practically can do to help a customer use the product.

-Mike
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 9 hours ago #20568

yurodivi wrote:

this old 2011 desktop is built upon an Intel Core i7 3'8 Ghz 2600K processor with AVX support and also 16 GB RAM and two 1 Gigabytes SSD's ...
The audio interface is a RME Babyface and I try to stick to the 44Khz 128 samples ( around 8.4 ms latency on NI Reaktor, for instance) setting under W7 mostly successfully
I have a Win 10 VAIO laptop, 2nd. gen 2.5 Ghz i3, 8 GB RAM and a Trascend 500 Gb SSD. A Behringer UMC404HD card gets me a roundabout latency under 6ms @44.1Mhz/64 samples with no crackles or hiccups. When I upgraded, the laptop, DAW (Studio One 4 Pro) and VSTs started to work FASTER, rather than slower. That's why I asked.

I think you didn't prepare the OS well enough to tackle audio recording... or some hardware component is not working as it should. With the RME, you should be able to use 44.1/32 samples with a roundabout latency inferior to 4ms without even breaking a sweat.

HTH,
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Last edit: 3 weeks 8 hours ago by LtKojak.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 7 hours ago #20569

yurodivi,

I understand your concerns about Windows 10. However, there is a workable alternative, Windows 10 LTSC. You can obtain these versions for as little as $11.00US and is well worth further investigation.

There are some who say that these particular versions are illegal - when they are in actual fact - not illegal. How do I know this? Contact Microsoft. When you purchase an LTSC version, you do get a valid PID and when installed, and the PID is used - as with any legal Windows OS, the system connects to an activation server which then validates the PID.

I have installed this version on many of my client's systems - all without issues. So, Windows 10 LTSC is well worth further investigation.

I do hope that this information will be of help to others?
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 3 weeks 4 hours ago #20570

Thank you, yurodivi. I'll use this option when I get dragged, kicking and screaming, to Win 10.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 5 days ago #20577

mike wrote:

yurodivi wrote:

My question is : will this just be the optimal and officially supported
way to run the 2.9 version or will it rather be ( is it ) a case of not being able to install and run the software under Windows 7 ?

Hello yurodivi,

I don't have a final answer for you at the moment. I will evaluate legacy support for Windows 7 once we're clear of all Windows 10 testing. As you read in the FAQ, it won't be a supported OS, although as many of our customers know, we would never hold back from doing what we practically can do to help a customer use the product.

-Mike

Thank you for your sincerity and good will, Mike ...

All the best in your life and projects ...
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 5 days ago #20578

LtKojak wrote:

yurodivi wrote:

this old 2011 desktop is built upon an Intel Core i7 3'8 Ghz 2600K processor with AVX support and also 16 GB RAM and two 1 Gigabytes SSD's ...
The audio interface is a RME Babyface and I try to stick to the 44Khz 128 samples ( around 8.4 ms latency on NI Reaktor, for instance) setting under W7 mostly successfully
I have a Win 10 VAIO laptop, 2nd. gen 2.5 Ghz i3, 8 GB RAM and a Trascend 500 Gb SSD. A Behringer UMC404HD card gets me a roundabout latency under 6ms @44.1Mhz/64 samples with no crackles or hiccups. When I upgraded, the laptop, DAW (Studio One 4 Pro) and VSTs started to work FASTER, rather than slower. That's why I asked.

I think you didn't prepare the OS well enough to tackle audio recording... or some hardware component is not working as it should. With the RME, you should be able to use 44.1/32 samples with a roundabout latency inferior to 4ms without even breaking a sweat.

HTH,

My laptop is a Sony Vaio as well though a more "vintage" Core 2 Duo ... Good purchase it was ...
LtKojak wrote:

... or some hardware component is not working as it should.

I think the USB2 and USB3 controllers and drivers might be a weak point on my system / MOBO ...Nevertheless, I guess I may get down to almost those 44.1 / 32 samples you mention when using just S-Gear ( the Asio control panel of the Babyface doesn't allow me to go that far - 48 samples minimum at 44100 Hz - ) ...

Cheers !
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 5 days ago #20579

Hello,
Though Windows 7 will become officially unsupported in 2020, from what I have been able to ascertain that though WIN10 is apparently still available free for download, there are some 840 million corporate-based users of Windows 7 - who are not likely to make the change to Windows 10 anytime soon.

In all honesty, this whole security thing is blown way out of perspective . I am the father of seven children - all of who were taught at a very young age what I refer to as "safe surfing habits" and none of them have ever had any issues with their systems. One of the reasons I believe this to be the case is that I have - ever since the Windows 95 days - disabled anything and everything to do with Windows Update. And though many have frowned on this activity of mine - I have never once felt any regret for this decision.

For those making the move to Windows 10, I hope that you will have a serious look at what I refer to as "Windows Versioning" - especially with the use of the term "deprecated". This is the reason I have opted for the use of the LTSC versions of Windows 10.

Also, I think it appropriate to mention that many of the current high-end audio developers, such as RME, Orion, and others, have stated to me personally that they have no intention of immediate ceasing of support for Window's 7. I know that companies such as PreSonus and Focusrite have stated that they will be doing so - but thankfully there are many other choices available to us.

Lastly, really do your homework on the so-called DAW improvements in versions above 1809 - such as 1903. Again, if you are considering the move to Windows 10 - have a serious look at Windows 10 LTSC, version 1809.

I do hope that some will find this information helpful?
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Last edit: 2 weeks 5 days ago by mr-es335.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 1 day ago #20584

As a person who works in / with IT, I cannot fathom why some folks are so reticent to move on from an OS that is about due to be dropped from the MS support cycle as it nears EoL (much as I loved Win 7 - which was a superb release _at the time_ ).

I realise the rationale behind the motto: 'fools rush in' -but Win10 has been around for near on 5 years.
Win 10 performance is way better than Win 8.x in my experience.
With an SSD and modest amount of RAM even relatively older devices run smooth and swift.

W10 is the final version of desktop Windows OS . There will be no Win 11 nor 12 etc.
It is a 'rolling release'. Once installed, we don't ever need to upgrade again - only keep it updated.

Time to move on!
Last edit: 2 weeks 1 day ago by telepath.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 1 day ago #20586

telepath,

Okay, so you are in IT...so am I.

I was wondering if you would be so kind as to share with us what is meant by "Windows Versioning" - or in other words, all the various Windows 10 version that have been made available, and in particular, version 1809, codenamed 'Redstone 5'?
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Last edit: 2 weeks 1 day ago by mr-es335.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 23 hours ago #20588

mr-es335 wrote:

telepath,

Okay, so you are in IT...so am I.

I was wondering if you would be so kind as to share with us what is meant by "Windows Versioning" - or in other words, all the various Windows 10 version that have been made available, and in particular, version 1809, codenamed 'Redstone 5'?

Hi,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history#Version_1809_(October_2018_Update)
Not sure what further I could add, and you have already provided thoughts on the matter above.
I am on 1809 myself, as I also run Windows 10 LTSC .
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Last edit: 2 weeks 23 hours ago by telepath.
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S - Gear 2.9 "Retrocompatibility" with Windows 7 2 weeks 9 hours ago #20589

I'm on 1903.

Solid as a rock. I haven't had even a glitch since Win 10's inception, upgrading from v. 8.1, playing over two thousand performances, counting rehearsals, live gigs, spontaneous jams and studio work.

Everybody owning a laptop (mine is from 11/2015) should use Win 10. Not doing it is simply self-inflicting pain for no reason. Former Mac head, BTW. 'nuff said? :??:
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Last edit: 2 weeks 9 hours ago by LtKojak.
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