TOPIC: S-Gear 2.9 status?

S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 11 hours ago #20683

ToH2002 wrote:

Personally, I prefer machine activations for my live laptops (main and backup)

Semi off-topic question. How are you running your setup live? Do you plug into an interface and then out to console?

Thanks!
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 10 hours ago #20685

-- ??? What do you mean?
-- ??? What do you mean? Are you talking in code?
-- Why in the world would I feel the need to get an iLok for?
-- Care to explain?

Yikes - that's a lot of interrogation for the morning. I think ToH2002 answered most of the questions already, but just to sum up my thoughts:

I have no need to carry an amp around for jobs, just carried an iLOK with an S-Gear license and then had S-Gear installed on whatever system I had to use. Even carried a USB with all my presets. Once S-Gear was installed I was ready to go. Plus - both sticks just fit nicely in my guitar case (try that with Fender Twin!) ;-)

I too had been an S-Gear user since it came out, and then the addition of the iLOK made things so much easier for me. Since then I don't have to lug a laptop around. If you don't like ILOK I get it. Plenty of people don't like it and that's plenty OK. For those of us that do use it - it's a godsend.

Finally, I've read Mike's response in this thread and I understand his choice in no longer supporting ILOK. Development costs are not cheap and there's a financial cost to every decision. For me, having Mike drop ILOK support is like Mike suddenly deciding to no longer include a tuner in the app. I'd hate to see it go, but I'l figure out away around it. Same for ILOK - I hate to see it go, but I'll figure away to work around (or without) it.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 4 weeks ago #20688

ryentzer wrote:

Semi off-topic question. How are you running your setup live? Do you plug into an interface and then out to console?

Pretty much: I plug my guitar directly into the instrument port of an RME Babyface, then run S-Gear within Cantabile on my laptop (allows me to build setups with S-Gear and other plugins - stomps and effects). From my laptop, I go out via the Babyface, directly to the mixer. I get to hear my guitar signal either through my monitor wedge or through in-ears - always as part of my monitor mix.

Overall, a nice and lean setup - especially since I run my whole keyboard rig on the same laptop. I just imagine using the original kit: lugging a Hammond, a piano, a handful of synths and a couple of guitar amps around - I'd need a van just for my kit... Technology is amazing!

Cheers,

Torsten
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Last edit: 1 month 4 weeks ago by ToH2002.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 4 weeks ago #20689

Thank you Torsten! That was very helpful.

I play at church where stage volume is an issue. I have an amp, but I've used S-Gear once or twice and it was really nice. I just need to find a good setup where the laptop is not on the floor but also not a distraction.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20719

S-Gear v2.9 bundled with the new Babyface Pro FS



www.facebook.com/groups/sgear/permalink/464556114483644/
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Last edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by Kotovsky.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20720

Hello,

This topic - "live usage" should really be part of separate thread! Yes...No?
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Last edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by mr-es335.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20723

I think it should (S-Gear being used live)...

Honestly, I have never before felt comfortable with my available options for using S-Gear live because I have never liked the tones I was getting from FRFR or PA systems, until today after experimenting with my recently acquired FBT Maxx4a powered speakers.

I just posted on TGP this, but will replicate it here for the record, explaining all my previous experiences and their results. Some of them are not conventional but worth revising anyway. I have always used S-Gear as my modelling tool.

1.- My first attempt was to play with a good acoustic guitar amplifier, since they are more or less small PA systems. I have got an AER Alpha, which is a small but excellent amplifier, at the very top of the range for all acoustic guitar amps. It sounded very boxy, with lots of lows and no punching mids or highs. Not very satisfactory, probably due to the small concentric speaker (8"), but with some EQ I've got reasonable results, but not convincing enough to use live.

2.- I tried an Alto TS112 with similar results, although slightly less boxy than the AER. The Alto speakers were designed for electronic DJ music, so they accentuate lows a lot...

3.- I have used a DB Technology Opera 210D, which is comparable to the Alto TS210 and it was one of my most recent purchases to use as a wedge monitor for the band. Still boxy but with some eq on the mixer (less lows, more mids and highs) I got some acceptable results.

4.- Through a typical budget club PA system (Yamaha mixer and power amp, Peavey EuroSys3 speakers). Horrible results! Didn't even tried to adjust EQ... Just used a Tech21 Character pedal (VTBass for cleans, I know it is for bass, but does the job) and a Joyo (clone of a Tech21 British Character pedal) for that gig...

5.- I have just bought a pair of FBT Maxx4a 12" powered speakers for the band and have just done a quick test. Woww!!! What a difference! Straight in with no eq sounded pretty good already. I just added a bit of highs and mids in the mixer and sounded really good, very convincing. For the first time ever I am considering using amp sims live, instead of my trusty tube amps.

For the channel switching, I always felt that MIDI footswitches or the software will present a sound gap between preset changes, so I figured out a simple way to fix this, and in addition, to provide me with a volume boost for solos: a combination of 2 A/B footswitches (I am building it myself, combining them both in a single pedal enclosure).

The first A/B will help with changing from clean to dirt tones. I will have two instances of S-Gear (standalone mode), one with input 1 only of my interface, and the second instance with input 2 only. The first will be dedicated to clean sounds, and the second to dirt. The A/B will switch between those two interface's inputs, and the switch has no audible gap whatsoever.

The second A/B comes after the output of my interface, and the two outputs from the second A/B will go to the mixer feeding two channels, which have the same EQ setting but different volumes, so one will be the "volume boost" for solos.
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Last edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by asintoras.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20726

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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20732

Looking forward to trying out what Mike has been working hard for so long. Long spring has been made this year. But surely he will not disappoint any of us. If not, he will return the money invested, hahaha!

waiting in the email hi has my inbox the 2.9 update
Last edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by Jordi.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20734

Considering that RME is one of the best audio interface makers on the planet. I think this is a great move.
No other USB audio interface can touch RME in terms of Stability and Round Trip Latency. Nice move!
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20736

Dallon426 wrote:

Considering that RME is one of the best audio interface makers on the planet. I think this is a great move.
No other USB audio interface can touch RME in terms of Stability and Round Trip Latency. Nice move!

I have had a Babyface Pro for a couple of years and agree. After suffering through latency and driver instability for years with Focusrite, Audient, Presonus and Steinberg interfaces, that all went away after getting the RME.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20737

richpjr,
After suffering through latency and driver instability for years with Focusrite, Audient, Presonus and Steinberg interfaces, that all went away after getting the RME.
... I would initially have to agree...however with the Behringer UMC404HD I have not had any latency issues whatsoever - at least during the past eight months or so.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20738

Good news about the RME BF - but I already have rock solid 3ms RT (1.5ms Output) latency using the Focusrite TB2 Clarett on MacOS.

Can't wait for the Jan 16th NAMM announcement. My eyes are sore trying to read the tiny Amp text on my 4K display. THANK YOU Mike.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20740

"however with the Behringer UMC404HD I have not had any latency issues whatsoever - at least during the past eight months or so."

Thanks for posting this info. That unit has some great features for the price. I like the inserts available on it.
I looked at the new RME unit and noticed there seems to be only XLR inputs on it.
I don't see the dual use 1/4" / XLR jacks on it so plugging in direct with a guitar cable on the RME would require a adapter I assume.
Last edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by LouDorn.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 2 weeks ago #20741

LouDorn,
I looked at the new RME unit and noticed there seems to be only XLR inputs on it.
I don't see the dual use 1/4" / XLR jacks on it so plugging in direct with a guitar cable on the RME would require a adapter I assume.
...have another look a the right-side of the unit...there are two 1/4 inputs located there.

This all being said, if you are already an S-Gear user, is there a significant difference - as good as RME is, in the actual output quality between the Behringer and the RME units? I sincerely do not believe so...though I am sure others would strongly disagree.
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Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by mr-es335.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 1 week ago #20749

mr-es335 wrote:

LouDorn,
I looked at the new RME unit and noticed there seems to be only XLR inputs on it.
I don't see the dual use 1/4" / XLR jacks on it so plugging in direct with a guitar cable on the RME would require a adapter I assume.
...have another look a the right-side of the unit...there are two 1/4 inputs located there.

This all being said, if you are already an S-Gear user, that there would be - as good as RME is, a significant difference in the actual output quality between the Behringer and the RME units...though I am sure others would strongly disagree.

Thanks for that information. I do own S-Gear. I'll take a look again at the RME though I must admit dropping $900 is probably unlikely for me as a home hobbyist. I currently use a Komplete 6 original version interface and am not overly pleased with it. The Behringer looked like a better unit from what I read spec wise, maybe a little more flexible. I am off topic though in regards to this thread, sorry about that.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 1 week ago #20750

LouDorn - when you look for a new audio interface, make sure you can get low latency drivers too.
That's just as important as the sound quality. It doesn't matter how good it sounds if you can't play properly because the latency is too high ;)
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 1 week ago #20751

You can always buy a used RME interface. The babyface pro is excellent. If you own S-gear already then that might be your best option. If you are content with your audio interface, then..don't change it. However, I really wish I would have known about RME when I first started. It would have ended hours of unnecessary frustration.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 1 week ago #20752

Dallon426,
However, I really wish I would have known about RME when I first started. It would have ended hours of unnecessary frustration.
... May I ask precisely what this "hours of unnecessary frustration" was - or involved?

Do not get me wrong, I used an HDSP9652 with a Behringer ADA8000/ADA8200 for over 8 years - "and nary problem with 'em".

This is why I opted for using the UMC404HD - as both units use the same pre's. I installed the current drivers and have the latency set to 64 samples...which provides an overall latency of 5.3 ms!

Without sounding impertinent Dallon426, may I ask, "What is in the world is wrong with that setting?"

According to the S-Gear User manual, page 11,

"What latency is acceptable?
It is quite difficult to hear less than 6 ms latency. Consider also that sound travels at roughly 330 meters per second, so even with a physical amp it takes nearly 10 ms for the sound to travel 3 meters from the speaker to your ear.

The audio buffer size mentioned above is NOT the end of the story; your audio interface will also add considerable latency for input and output buffering (on top of the audio buffer latency). Depending on the performance of your audio interface, you will likely end up with between 4-15 ms latency through your setup. Once you become accustomed to playing your instrument with this latency, you will probably find that it doesn’t bother you too much.
"

Just curious!
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Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by mr-es335.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 1 week ago #20753

I was running a lot of VST Instruments and effects and no sound card that I had tried gave me great stability. I was constantly running into roadblocks, crackles and pops, etc. I had used a bunch over the last 20 or so years. I actually did not own an RME until a few years ago (Babyface pro) I had never had such a stable machine I am currently running a UAD interface and I am happy with it. Although the RME did give me better performance in the RTL department. Also the RME just worked with everything, whereas even with this UAD I have problems running WDM drivers. UAD's architecture does not work well with it at all. So using Skype with my UAD interface is not possible, whereas with the RME.... Flawless. Also yes, I can absolutely tell the difference in latency (years of playing and you develop a feel for it. With interfaces such as RME and UAD, it feels right. I run all my projects at 44.1 KHZ and I have my buffers set at 32 or 64..... Sometimes higher if it is a heavier project.
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Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Dallon426.
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