TOPIC: S-Gear 2.9 status?

S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 5 days ago #19926

Hi All,

I've not been able to get over here as much as I'd like to in recent months, but I popped in just now, saw this thread and wanted to add just a few thoughts of my own. They're just my opinion of course...and please feel free to ignore them. :-)

There is a tendency these days it seems to want music software manufacturers (especially in music production) to come up with something new on a very regular basis. To be honest, I've ending up subscribing to that viewpoint myself almost without knowing it at times. Almost every VST type guitar forum has people clamouring and swearing for the next software update to their favourite plugin and it got me thinking a little as to why we do this?

When I started playing I don't remember any of this going on. Players liked what they liked, usually the big names like Gibson, Vox, Fender and Marshall and most of the inter-player conversations were about somebody's playing ability rather than their gear. Now it seems as though it's all about equipment and software.

I embrace new technology as much as the next person, but some of the anger about software updates that is displayed on forums really shocks me at times. Why are people so obsessed with this I wonder? Does their life depend on it? Does their livelihood depend on it?...in most cases I doubt that's the case

I'm also noticing these days that virtually every 'pro' video demonstrating new guitar-related software is made by somebody sat in their 'home-studio' (I do home -produced videos too I might add, so i'm not being a hypocrite here) Nobody is ever on a gig or in a rehearsal studio demoing the gear. However, are all these people really professional musicians?.... I am, and I can't afford a brand new iMac, plus twenty top-of-the range custom guitars on the wall along with thousands of pounds worth of studio equipment. In some cases I almost expect the 'pro-reviewer' to have their Mum shout in the background that their dinner is on the table....Anyway, that's a topic for another time I think. ;-)

We are spoilt these days in terms of what is available for us to use on computers. Back in the day, it was unthinkable to be able to record multi-tracks at home with the quality we can now enjoy. It would also cost a fortune to enter a studio and record anything of a decent quality. Nowadays, even your pet dog can have a guitar sound that is like a roaring 4x12 or a vintage AC30. Yet people still moan that version 3.78.234.76754 of their software purchase STILL hasn't been released as yet after three months. Hmmm.

I've used S Gear from an early point and it's featured on virtually all the professional work i've undertaken. It works, it sounds great and I can get a sound easily. That's all I need. Even if it was never upgraded, I'd still use it all the time.

A musical acquaintance of mine (who I won't name, but is a well-known player) said to me recently that he's used the same two amps for nearly forty years and despite trying lots of new gear hasn't ever felt like changing things. He also made an interesting analogy as well; he said that it was all a bit like a marriage to him. If you find the right person then you'll stick with them for good, as you are happy and can grow with that person and find constant inspiration and happiness. If you aren't happy with your relationship..well you can guess the rest...but change for the sake of change rarely serves any useful purpose.

For me, I certainly keep an eye out on the newest software, but if I need to get to work I use S Gear. I can't see that changing to be honest.

I don't have any business interests here or financial incentives from the company (unlike many so-called 'objective' YouTube reviewers who tell you the latest gear is always the best, because they get paid to do that)

I use S Gear because it gets the job done and is reliable and sounds good. Period.

I'll be thrilled when the next version comes out, but not because it's a new version, but because I know Mike will have done a brilliant job, cares about sound a LOT and won't release something just for a quick buck. I respect that a great deal.

Thanks

Pete
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 5 days ago #19929

psklaroff wrote:

Hi All,

Nowadays, even your pet dog can have a guitar sound that is like a roaring 4x12 or a vintage AC30. Yet people still moan that version 3.78.234.76754 of their software purchase STILL hasn't been released as yet after three months. Hmmm.

Not with S-Gear you get AC-30.
and version Blah blah blah, is over year late.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 5 days ago #19930

It is human nature to want to see improvements. That is how we are designed and we critique and figure out more efficient and effective ways of problem solving. The cool think about Mike is that he has listened to our feedback here and he is working on the issues. Some people get their panties in a bunch and act way out of line, but that is just a character flaw. I am glad Mike gave us some feedback, it is definitely appreciated as I was beginning to lose some hope myself. It is good for a developer to check in and involve his or her customers on the process and any new information. Even if it is once a month or whatever. We do not need time lines, but we do appreciate information.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 5 days ago #19931

Great googlymoogly people! It’s just software.

At least Scuffham hasn’t sold out to Apple like some VSTs I know (looking at YOU Alchemy).
....and am I the only one who caught the ARM and SHARC dsp reference?
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 5 days ago #19932

Thank you Mike. The news of your progress is always appreciated.
mike wrote:

...also deploying the modelling to new and exciting platforms (including ARM and SHARC DSP).

While my needs are modest and will not likely extend beyond the plugin, I can't deny being very excited about any prototypes you've built which one day may become an S-Gear rack or floorboard unit!
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 4 days ago #19933

This new generation is funny... all this obsession with irrelevant stuff and the media attention, obsession with number of likes and followers, at whatever cost. And this of course applies to this anxiety over new updates/releases,

The way I see S-Gear is that it is like a real amp, and it sounds so good as it is that I just use it in a similar way as using a real amp. When I use a real amp, I don't bother with anxiety over how it will sound with the newest release of Chinese tubes vs/ old NOS tubes, or a new capacitor that has been released in the press, or if it will sound better with a new kettle lead... I just play the damn thing and try to make music and get inspired by.

Same thing with people's obsession with IR's... it's just silly in my opinion.

Personally - and Mike knows this - I only wish two specific amp models, nothing more: a VOX AC30 and a Marshall type that is capable of producing early EVH brown tones, and I bet he is pretty close to that. In the meantime, I wish I had more time to make new music but have been extremely busy with work and new gigs (not with my original music unfortunately), so haven't used S-Gear much lately, and that is part of the reason I have been away a bit.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 4 days ago #19935

I know many people & have a lot of friends who have huge collections of books & videos on music [tab books, methods etc]. Most of them will never improve much because as soon as something in the book becomes work they start looking for another miracle that will make them a better player. Same with real & virtual amps effects etc. Sure, getting tones you like can be inspiring and make you sound better but that is only a drop in the bucket compared to study & practice. For some the constant search turns into an addiction & the music secondary. The real sound is in your fingers, heart & mind. True musicians can capture an audience just using those 3 ingredients.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 4 days ago #19936

Couldn't agree more..well said! :-)
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 4 days ago #19938

Hedges wrote:

I know many people & have a lot of friends who have huge collections of books & videos on music [tab books, methods etc]. Most of them will never improve much because as soon as something in the book becomes work they start looking for another miracle that will make them a better player. Same with real & virtual amps effects etc. Sure, getting tones you like can be inspiring and make you sound better but that is only a drop in the bucket compared to study & practice. For some the constant search turns into an addiction & the music secondary. The real sound is in your fingers, heart & mind. True musicians can capture an audience just using those 3 ingredients.
Also agree. But there are lots of dimensions to music and its nice that different people focus on different dimensions.

Love your ID and icon. I miss Michael Hedges almost every day. He was a treasure of our time.
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 3 days ago #19941

asintoras wrote:

This new generation is funny... all this obsession with irrelevant stuff and the media attention, obsession with number of likes and followers, at whatever cost. And this of course applies to this anxiety over new updates/releases,

I see no correlation between those two things whatsoever. Noone that is actively using this software is wanting updates just for the sake of having a new version, we want updates because we know how good the software is and what the developer is capable of.

asintoras wrote:

The way I see S-Gear is that it is like a real amp, and it sounds so good as it is that I just use it in a similar way as using a real amp. When I use a real amp, I don't bother with anxiety over how it will sound with the newest release of Chinese tubes vs/ old NOS tubes, or a new capacitor that has been released in the press, or if it will sound better with a new kettle lead... I just play the damn thing and try to make music and get inspired by.

Same thing with people's obsession with IR's... it's just silly in my opinion.

Again, I don't think anyone is concerned about exacting technical specs, what model of tubes Mike is going to use or anything to do with the fine details, because we've been sold on the quality of the brand for years now, (many of us using it in our production music whereby we make our livelihood), and we trust him to make those decisions for himself.

The reason we want updates and more models is the exact same reason that producers collect rooms full of amp heads and cabs, because a great many of them possess some truly timeless sounds, whether it be a Vox, Mesa, Marshall, or whatever, it's just got that "sound" that you know in your soul from countless albums, to the point where you can even hear it in your head when mixing and you think "A MB Raw channel through some vintage 30s would be perfect here", or "a deluxe reverb would really make those clean parts sing", and so forth.
Those of us who are producers (as well as players) simply want a greater tonal palette to work with in this digital age, and it truly is difficult to have too many toys to play with in that regard, given the variety of legendary amps that are out there.

Also IRs make a tremendous difference in sound :ohmy:
asintoras wrote:

Personally - and Mike knows this - I only wish two specific amp models, nothing more: a VOX AC30 and a Marshall type that is capable of producing early EVH brown tones

Sounds good to me :feeling it:
asintoras wrote:

and I bet he is pretty close to that
I think the main gripe is that we really don't know what he's close to, because many of us just feel like we've been kept out of the loop as to the development status. Granted, as a fellow musician I understand and work with people who are notorious procrastinators all the time, and even indulge in it myself more than I care to admit, but when the product is this good and you're left wanting more of it I think the sting feels a bit more potent
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 3 days ago #19944

The point is that we would all like to support you in some way to help the project move forward. For example as a beta tester. ;-)
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 3 days ago #19945

LorenzoGamble wrote:

asintoras wrote:

This new generation is funny... all this obsession with irrelevant stuff and the media attention, obsession with number of likes and followers, at whatever cost. And this of course applies to this anxiety over new updates/releases,

I see no correlation between those two things whatsoever. Noone that is actively using this software is wanting updates just for the sake of having a new version, we want updates because we know how good the software is and what the developer is capable of.

asintoras wrote:

The way I see S-Gear is that it is like a real amp, and it sounds so good as it is that I just use it in a similar way as using a real amp. When I use a real amp, I don't bother with anxiety over how it will sound with the newest release of Chinese tubes vs/ old NOS tubes, or a new capacitor that has been released in the press, or if it will sound better with a new kettle lead... I just play the damn thing and try to make music and get inspired by.

Same thing with people's obsession with IR's... it's just silly in my opinion.

Again, I don't think anyone is concerned about exacting technical specs, what model of tubes Mike is going to use or anything to do with the fine details, because we've been sold on the quality of the brand for years now, (many of us using it in our production music whereby we make our livelihood), and we trust him to make those decisions for himself.

The reason we want updates and more models is the exact same reason that producers collect rooms full of amp heads and cabs, because a great many of them possess some truly timeless sounds, whether it be a Vox, Mesa, Marshall, or whatever, it's just got that "sound" that you know in your soul from countless albums, to the point where you can even hear it in your head when mixing and you think "A MB Raw channel through some vintage 30s would be perfect here", or "a deluxe reverb would really make those clean parts sing", and so forth.
Those of us who are producers (as well as players) simply want a greater tonal palette to work with in this digital age, and it truly is difficult to have too many toys to play with in that regard, given the variety of legendary amps that are out there.

Also IRs make a tremendous difference in sound :ohmy:
asintoras wrote:

Personally - and Mike knows this - I only wish two specific amp models, nothing more: a VOX AC30 and a Marshall type that is capable of producing early EVH brown tones

Sounds good to me :feeling it:
asintoras wrote:

and I bet he is pretty close to that
I think the main gripe is that we really don't know what he's close to, because many of us just feel like we've been kept out of the loop as to the development status. Granted, as a fellow musician I understand and work with people who are notorious procrastinators all the time, and even indulge in it myself more than I care to admit, but when the product is this good and you're left wanting more of it I think the sting feels a bit more potent

My point in the first paragraph was that youngsters tend to always look for the next new thing, and that applies to relationships, material things, etc. When something is good, my opinion is that we should stick to it for longer, like the old saying "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"...

The second point was more sarcastic about that desire for the next new thing, and I used the analogy of real amps to make it even more ridiculous.

And the IR's do make a drastic change, but the selection from S-Gear is pretty much all I need. I never felt the need to buy all the variations from Ownhammer or other providers (I still have a few from 3sigmaaudio), because the changes between a Greenback from Ownhammer or Redwirez or 3sigmaaudio, using the same mic and position (more or less), is like a slight variation in the eq and you can compensate for that. That is what I meant about guys buying thousands of IR's and then they don't know what to do with them, and after so much time testing/comparing between all their options, they tend to loose objectivity due to a tired ear.

It might just be me, but nowadays I have so little time available to play that when I get that time to play, I want to go straight into it and not waste any time on stuff that would deviate me from "creating music".

Hope this makes my points clearer?
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 2 days ago #19946

asintoras wrote:

When something is good, my opinion is that we should stick to it for longer, like the old saying "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"...

Don't get me wrong, I believe that to be quite a keen sentiment generally speaking. It does however raise a few philosophical questions in regards to progress vs. comfort (which are both themselves rather general and subjective terms): In the words of Cpt. Kirk, "Man stagnates if he has no ambition, no desire to be more than he is." That statement in particular doesn't apply to anyone in our discussion, but I feel it's a pretty good summation of the "working" facet of the human condition.

Ferrari for example has made countless contributions over the years to the supercar industry, and the Enzo was truly a work of art, from its Formula 1 style transmission to the unchained growl of its 6 liter V12 engine... but was it the perfect supercar? Apparently they didn't think so, since they went on to build the F430 and the Italia, culminating in the timeless Laferrari in 2013 :thumbs up:

That's what it boils down to, is our drive and motivation to innovate... which is often hard to nurture and maintain.

Granted we're not dealing with such vast sums of money in our world (sadly), but I think our industry is akin to the automotive industry in that respect, in that there really is no "perfect" car, amp, cabinet, microphone, guitar, etc., there's only things that are perfect for certain situations. You wouldn't take a Ferrari out for a family drive in the country just as you wouldn't record a silky clean guitar part with an Orange amp head :D

That's why I feel variety is so important, it's like a painter only having access to red, green and black for instance. He might be able to make some great illustrations, but his capacity to realize what he sees in his mind's eye will surely be limited.

Having said all that I would modify your original sentiment (which I appreciate and respect), to say "When something is good, my opinion is that we should improve upon and make more of it".

But again, different strokes and all :rock out:
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 2 days ago #19948

Some of the takes are really stretching it, much more like rationalization on why a new version has not been released than coherent arguments. If it ain't broke or it is good enough are wonderful sentiments, yet Mike is doing some major work on the product so it clearly has not reached it's potential yet.

I was one of the early adapters of S-Gear and love it. I'll upgrade when the new version is someday (hopefully) released. But the the reality is that most of the competitors in this space have come out with many updates and new features and improvements while S-Gear has been stagnant and we really hear nothing from Mike. I get that Scuffham is a small shop and as a software engineer I know how hard it is to release a quality product. But the industry continues to advance. I picked up a Helix about a year and a half ago and it has been a great tool. One can argue what sounds better (and I'd give a small edge to S-Gear) but for ease of use, features, effects, and regular releases that continue to add new features, it is really no contest. There aren't many things you one can't do with it. It may be overkill for some, but I love the flexibility to quickly dial up virtually any sound I like.

I'd love to see S-Gear add a few models (especially a Vox), a dirt thing, better IR handling and a UI that can actually be scaled so it's not so tiny on a high resolution monitor. Whatever Mike comes out with will surely be excellent and I'll gladly pay whatever he charges, but we've been waiting for a long time...
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 2 days ago #19949

richpjr wrote:

I'd love to see S-Gear add a few models (especially a Vox), a dirt thing, better IR handling and a UI that can actually be scaled so it's not so tiny on a high resolution monitor. Whatever Mike comes out with will surely be excellent and I'll gladly pay whatever he charges, but we've been waiting for a long time...

Yes to all that.

Also yes, GIEF "Dirt Thing" please :thumbs up:
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 2 days ago #19951

Bottom line: S-Gear's new version will be ready when Mike decides it's ready. Not a minute before. In the meantime, play with what you've got. I'm pretty sure all those triggered cry babies wasting bandwith bitching and moaning about S-Gear are pretty excited about playing an early '60s amp, which didn't get any update in over fifty years? Oh, the irony...
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 2 days ago #19952

I mean..... Not really it is an entirely different platform. And also the amp companies did not say we will have an updated version in a specified time, and then ultimately did not deliver and kept silent about it. That is what the majority of people are complaining about and I understand that. If you are told one thing and then left in the dark about it a year later, well... I would expect people to get worked up about it. The good news is that Mike did reach out. I feel like a monthly check in would be sufficient. Pictures or short videos might be enough chumming to keep the sharks hungry.
I think the main point is people are excited and want to know what is going on behind the scenes and also want communication. Which given this platform, I think it is a fair request.
At least here we get a direct response, whereas other companies that are huge like UAD the response is pretty generic, like "we are currenlt working on a lot of projects and when the time is right, we will address the issues that we determine to be in the forefront"
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 2 months 3 hours ago #19953

All you you have to do is to check News&Info, what is happening there?
let's see
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S-Gear development status
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 4 weeks ago #19955

So what?

This thread is almost 10 pages of discussion about this subject.

I think it is pretty clear that when Mike is working on more than a simple update and probably can't tell everybody his future plans.

When I bought S Gear I bought it for what it was not what it would become. I got a lot for my money and still get a lot.

There is no bugs or wrong things with this actual version I paid for and I enjoy it almost everyday.

Can it be improved? Yes but like any other products on the market.

By the way if you go on Fractal Audio forum the wish list thread for the Axe FX 3 is already 38 pages long:-)
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S-Gear 2.9 status? 1 month 4 weeks ago #19956

I think Fractal and Kemper set expectations that software updates were part of the purchase.
S-Gear is the best sounding and feeling plugin you can buy. I use it everyday. If/when an update comes out well that's just icing on the cake. It really doesn't need a thing. It's fine the way it is.
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