TOPIC: Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW

Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11707

I'm new to S-gear (and fairly new to DAW/plugins) but I've noticed that the sound I'm hearing through the headphones differs even with the same Amp settings depending on whether I'm using the standalone, a DAW plugin, recording (playback sounds different than when recorded -less gain/delay/reverb).

I was wondering if others have observed the same thing.

Setup I'm using is windows 10 computer, DAW presonus studio one 2, presonus audiobox for interface.

It feels like each is seeing a different input signal level or handling the input signal differently.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11740

Curious. The more I play with s-gear, the more I feel the same.

Standalone version has some kind of "openess", clarity and definition that I just can't achieve in any daw or vst host (tried ableton live, reaper, cubase, cantabile, and others. Exception goes for plogue bidule, but that can't be called a daw... )

I play with a sample rate of 96khz (the one that sounds best to me - again, more clarity, etc...)

I don't know if it is some configuration in DAWs that I'm missing. It's like if some kind of compression was applied by default on most of them... or if it 's the case that the vst just works different (which I find unlikely)...
Never bothered me much though, since I don't record, mostly I play live, and for what I do, the standalone version gives me plenty.

Usually I put s-gear in a stereo track (so that only the right channels is feeded with a guitar signal), and output is stereo as well. Just like with the standalone version.

Nevertheless sound comes strange. Clearly something is wrong, but maybe it's just me who is setting it badly...
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11742

The most likely cause is different input and/or output levels into and out of S-Gear. Even a very tiny change in input level can make the amp feel different. And our ears generally preceive anything louder as better. DAWs may have some impact on input and output that changes what S-Gear sees. Check that first.

S-Gear uses up-sampling of the input for internal processing. I doubt the DAW has any inpact on the S-Gear plugin itself, constraining its resources or doing its own sample coversion into or out of S-Gear. But its possible.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11743

jamsden wrote:

The most likely cause is different input and/or output levels into and out of S-Gear. Even a very tiny change in input level can make the amp feel different. And our ears generally preceive anything louder as better. DAWs may have some impact on input and output that changes what S-Gear sees. Check that first.

S-Gear uses up-sampling of the input for internal processing. I doubt the DAW has any inpact on the S-Gear plugin itself, constraining its resources or doing its own sample coversion into or out of S-Gear. But its possible.

That`s very true,plus every Daw saying they are sound neutral but the truth is there is extremely slight difference.Samplitude Pro X has most transparent sound of every I tested,but I can`t get used to it.
My heart stays with Reaper.
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Last edit: 4 years 5 months ago by Studiostriver.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11746

yes for me the standalone sounds 'better' .... i don't know if the daw itself is doing something to the input... but maybe some of the reason of the standalone sound more open...or something like that... maybe is input related and mono or stereo selections...

this part of the sgear interface can create dramatic changes to the sound...


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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11747

It's probably the “pan law”. Reaper has several options. You might be able to set it to sound the same, but you need to alternate the settings for cascading pans to keep it even: 0, -3, 0, -3, ...
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11748

yes man.. i almost forget this pan law subject.. maybe this is the "problem" ... since the stand alone gets the input straight out of our audio interface...

another suspect ! LOL

pan law
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11751

Thank you GCKelloch :thumbs up: :thumbs up: :thumbs up:

always learning :)

Never heard before of this pan law, but googled it, tried it, and definitively got an improvement with reaper's sound :)

not sure if it is the same as standalone, but cleraly getting very closer and better now :)
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11762

Unless there is oversampling or signal processing going on inside the DAW app, it's just streaming the digital signal from your A/I and usually upscaling to 32 or 64bit. It would then be truncated to 24bit at the D/A converter. I do find that the bass quality of a file rendered to 24 vs 32bits is slightly different, but I think it has to do with how the D/A converts the bits in realtime. 32bit rendered files seem to have a rounder/deeper bass. It's not possible that there is actually more low level linearity, since the lower 8 bits get truncated by the D/A converter. Render the same file in 24 & 32bits and listen to the bass quality. As Jamsden mentioned, very slight volume changes can really alter the way we perceive a sound as well. I wouldn't avoid the VST version for these reasons, and yes: the 64bit internal audio path of Reaper does make it potentially better quality than most other DAW's. I can't imagine how that level of dynamic resolution would make a difference considering the potential dynamic range of 32bits, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have it.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11764

Well, i'm not really an expert. Just having fun and learning what I can. For me, mixing is a whole new world, so most probably I might be doind thounsands of errors...

Nevertheless what I did was (and forgive the lack of accuracy in explaining)

1 - Create an empty input track in reaper, and apply -3.0dB pan law to it's output.
2 - Route the output of track 1 to a new track where S-gear is inserted as VST host.

Don't know if this is the right aproach. I find strange to have to lower the input signal before feeding s-gear in a DAW, but to my ears, trueth be told, it now feels much closer to the perception I have of the standalone version. A more clear, pristine sound. not so muddy and compressed.

So, good or bad, for me it feels more natural now, with the added benefit of being able to mix s-gear with other plugin effects with better results :)
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11790

Yes - I too have noticed that the standalone version of SGear sound so much better than when played through my DAW. I'm also using Presonos Audiobox into Studio One v2.

An earlier poster was mentioning "pan law" as a possible issue - not sure what this is but will do some googling on the topic and hopefully I can get the DAW to sound better (or closer to the standalone version)
SGear v2, EzDrummer v2, Studio One v3 Pro, various plugins
Windows 10, i7 4790, 16GB Ram, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, 2TB HDD
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 4 years 5 months ago #11796

If the first Reaper channel is set to one mono in & out, and the S-Gear VST plugin (Reaper is the “VST host” in this case) is set for just one input, I don't think the pan going into it matters, but the pans after it do matter. The channel I/O, pan width, and individual VST I/O settings also matter. The routing in Reaper can be confusing, but it's part of the versatility. This seems more like a DAW specific question, so you might look into it at the Reaper forums. Reaper is fantastic, but I'm thinking of getting 'Tracktion 6' for the user friendly factor.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 8 months 5 days ago #19970

Hi!

Here is how I do it.
I use Cubase 10 Pro, but there is nothing DAW-specific in how I do it. So any DAW should be fine.

1. I make a mono audio track.
2. I set the guitar input to this track.
I add 5dB on the Pre Gain on this track.
4. I make an Effects Stereo-to-Stereo track.
I add 3dB on Pre Gain on the effects track.(In Cubase I bring up the Edit Channel Settings (the e)) and set the pre-gain from 0dB to 3dB. This Pre-Gain sets the sound input level before anything else on the stripe. You may have a pre-gain knob, instead.)
5. And route the signal from the guitar track to the effects track.
6. In the effects track Insert/VST, I put the S-Gear VST.
7. I route this effects track to Stereo Out.

I guess that a Group or Bus track can be used instead of an Effects Track.

That's it!

Stereo out from the guitar track to the stereo in on the effects track AND that it is in stereo (dual mono?) to the S-Gear 2 VST, and also the sound boost, is making a good difference, I guess.

It sounds great! Very, very similar to the Standalone.
Last edit: 3 weeks 3 days ago by ragnarli.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 3 weeks 3 days ago #21024

I get VERY CLOSE to the Standalone sound by doing this:

1. High volume in from the guitar and the soundcard.
The meter peaks at about -12dB on the Input-track
2. This is routed from the Input track to the Guitar audio mono-to-stereo track (Where wav goes.)
5dB is added on Pre Gain on this track.
(Here it gets closer to -6dB on the meter. I add a limiter on the Insert here with -1dB, just in case.)
3. This is routed to an Stereo-to-Stereo Effects track.
3dB is added here on Pre Gain.
Put S-Gear 2 VST in the Instert on this track
4. Route this to Stereo Out. No Pre Gain added here.
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Last edit: 3 weeks 3 days ago by ragnarli.
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Same settings but diff sound from standalone & DAW 3 days 10 hours ago #21117

Have you tried Mixbus by Harrison as your DAW?
I have also tried several DAWs and found Mixbus to have the best sound output for S-Gear and other VSTs.
I researched it on the Internet and Youtube and was a bit sceptical of the great reviews.
However, I installed the demo version, tried it and immediately purchased a copy.
Another great freebie DAW is ELEMENT. Give it a try, i think you'll like it.
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