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TOPIC: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ?

Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3343

Like Guitar Rig, Overloud TH2 has this "smart" midi control too, where you can assign many parameters in each buttons/expression pedal, if I am not mistaken. So hoping that S-Gear upgrade it's MIDI rack controller in the future. This will be very useful as for standalone and playing live
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by hen.
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3345

Most DAW software will let you assign the same controller CC to a variety of parameters. You could for example have, lets say cc7, control a wah pedal sweep, and also the speed of a chorus effect. Move the pedal, both controls are moved. You'd just need to then assign a button to each bypass so that unless the wah it turned on, its not affecting the sound, even though the parameter is moving.

TH1/2 with the "smart" controls are quite nice though because you can have things like a "stepless" wah effect, where when its in the heel position its off, and when you step forward it on, in addition to the wah filter being tweaked.

This is great for boards like the Behringer 1010, which doesn't have an activation footswitch under the expression pedal.

I personally like the Line6 or the Roland FC300 because they both do, and for me, it just makes more sense to step forward and click a wah pedal on, just like in real life.

The FC300 was a model I used to own and its got an amazing build quality.

Had a few downsides though for me

1) it needs an ac adapter, as its not bus powered

2) it needs a midi adapter. It came out pre USB so compared to the Line6, which you just plug in via USB for both power/data, you need some extra cables and its just less plug n play

3) not having USB there isn't a quick and easy editor. Its not bad to program but lets say you want a pedal to be momentary on, CC8 and switching between 0/1, or 0/127 etc, based on what your app needs. You have to do a lot of button pressing and menu diving.

Line6 in contrast has a quick and easy editor where you just select those things with the mouse and it updates the pedal.

Even better, you can save those setups.

So lets say you want to use the footboard as a MMC with stop, play, rewind etc. You can program that and what each button does, but then you can also have your guitar setup, with each button for different things, different CC's etc. Just select the setting program and your in business.

On top of all that, the FC300 is $449 new, the Line6 is $200 so pretty big cost savings there.

FC300 does have an extra expression pedal which is nice, but the LIne6 does allow you to plug in an extra one

FC300 allows 2 extra on top of that, but realistically, after buying a $449 board, are you really going to still want to more EXP pedal's at $119 a pop (assuming you use Mission Engineering or something else otherwise quality) Probably not

Heck, I got my Shortboard for $120 off Ebay

I could just buy another whole unit for less than just an EXP pedal lol
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3370

millsart wrote:

Most DAW software will let you assign the same controller CC to a variety of parameters. You could for example have, lets say cc7, control a wah pedal sweep, and also the speed of a chorus effect. Move the pedal, both controls are moved. You'd just need to then assign a button to each bypass so that unless the wah it turned on, its not affecting the sound, even though the parameter is moving.

But it'll move by the same value! With the same scaling! In most DAW and soft amp sims you can do that, but you can't make one knob go from zero and travel to full, while another one just goes between - say - 5 at minimum and 7 at full maximum. Say if I play a clean sound, I want just a little more treble, but will full tilt distortion, just a little less treble. Or reverb/delay dry wet mix. In the case scenario you've described, they move by the same value. You can't do "bracketing" as it is called inside Guitar Rig. Also, I don't think you can do complete reverse way. That one knob/controller goes down to zero from full, while another goes up from zero to full. There are numerous instances where I would find this very useful.
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3371

Eriksson wrote:

But it'll move by the same value! With the same scaling! In most DAW and soft amp sims you can do that, but you can't make one knob go from zero and travel to full, while another one just goes between - say - 5 at minimum and 7 at full maximum. Say if I play a clean sound, I want just a little more treble, but will full tilt distortion, just a little less treble. Or reverb/delay dry wet mix. In the case scenario you've described, they move by the same value. You can't do "bracketing" as it is called inside Guitar Rig. Also, I don't think you can do complete reverse way. That one knob/controller goes down to zero from full, while another goes up from zero to full. There are numerous instances where I would find this very useful.
But you can do exactly this with S-Gear! using any MIDI Control Change expression pedal.

With the following configuration, I have two controllers configured in S-Gear, both responding to the same MIDI CC number (07 - volume). As the external MIDI CC message changes from 00-127, the Amp Level goes up from 2.0 -> 7.0 and the Amp presence goes down from 8.0 ->2.0. Different directions and different scaling. And very easy to configure.

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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3373

But you can do exactly this with S-Gear! using any MIDI Control Change expression pedal.

With the following configuration, I have two controllers configured in S-Gear, both responding to the same MIDI CC number (07 - volume). As the external MIDI CC message changes from 00-127, the Amp Level goes up from 2.0 -> 7.0 and the Amp presence goes down from 8.0 ->2.0. Different directions and different scaling. And very easy to configure.


What? I overlooked that! :oops:
Nice! :woohoo:

Now all we need is a dedicated expression pedal, that can be assigned on every specified presets/patches.

Thanks Mike
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by hen.
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3374

Yes, this is possible in stand alone mode, and I have done this too.That works great though, and it was oe of the first things I found out if it did. A regular BOSS FV500 expression pedal -> a midi keyboard - midi in to soundcard - and MIDI into S-gear. I've done this several times in standalone mode. But certain DAWs and sound recording programs doesn't allow this, not even multiple cc to one knob.It is dependent on the host too sometimes.

Some pedals, like some Rolands and huge boards, where you can hook up EXTERNAL and ADDITIONAL expression pedals to it, say 2 or three, one can only assign one cc to them, then all three of them will respond to that cc because it is just for one expression pedal at a time. Now, say, that I want one of these pedals, VOX, Roland, Behringer with two control pedals in each, you may want one of them to cntrl two different things, and the CC if for expression pedals. Say it won't work with one of them having the WAH WAH ctrl, and one of them doing all these multiple things or just VOLUME. Behringer is unwieldy to program big time. That MIDI cc doesn't know which expression pedal is used. You can use exclusive MIDI in some cases though, or have it to receive different things on multiple MIDI channels.
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3379

Realistically how many expression pedals/parameters does one have to tweak though ?

Trying to keep track of what all those pedals and parameters does would be so tough I don't think I'd remember to play the guitar, all my attention would be on tap dancing lol

I know there are some parameters that are cool with an expression pedal, but does one really need expression pedal control of something like the presence control on an amp ?

I just set stuff like EQ tweaks etc, to a foot switch. Its a given value and then you step on it and it switches to a different value. That just realistically seems all you'd need for musical applications.

I've experimented with such things in the past and really just found it awkward to really control in a band situation. Things like having delay time be set to the EXP for example. Just didn't prove really all that useful (or easy) to tweak in real time. Instead just having some preset times (or different delay pedals to switch on/off) proved much more practical.

I like EXP for swells, wah, univibe speed, and the mix amount on a rotary speaker. Other stuff like the amp mids, chorus width, etc just aren't things I ever really feel the need to devote a pedal to
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3381



Some just wants a few controller pedals. I will do with two only. But here are a couple


You see there's two pedal already built in, and an external expression on the side. Like this too, from behringer:



or this:

Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Eriksson.
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3384

millsart wrote:

Realistically how many expression pedals/parameters does one have to tweak though ?

To keep things handy and compact for my Foot Controller, for me I only need one expression pedal ;) I don't prefer huge foot controller like the behringer which has two expresion pedals.

If the stompboxes, wah, pitch shifter, etc, included in the future release S-Gear, I don't think one expression pedal is enough. And it will only be approriate to have a dedicated expression pedal then , that is to be assigned with different parameters, to every specified presets of your choosing.

If S-Gear will stop developing and stay at it is, then we don't need expression pedal then. ;)
millsart wrote:

Trying to keep track of what all those pedals and parameters does would be so tough I don't think I'd remember to play the guitar, all my attention would be on tap dancing lol

That's your limitation, but not mine :lol:

;)
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Re: Alternate controlling pedals for s-gear ? 7 years 7 months ago #3389

One EXP pedal works pretty well as long as your program changes each are tailored to what you want that pedal to do.

I was using the IK Stealth Pedal for a while and its as simple as just the EXP and a 2 button footswitch, which I used for switching patches.

On a given program, the pedal might control wah, on another it might of been volume. I'd often program in certain other effects to come on with a given setting, so I'd just tap a switch and kick in the wah, perhaps an EQ boost etc for a solo, all without tap dancing. Kind of the Bradshaw system style of handling effects.

People just have to realistically ask themselves how often do they really need wah, volume, ring mod, delay times, pitch shift etc all at once.

I worked in a studio for a while and some guys would get so wrapped up in all the effects they wanted for a given part, what amp heads they wanted blended etc that a session would be over and they wouldn't of gotten a single note to tap.

With software these days its even worse because there are so many effects with all the 3rd party stuff, you name it.

I mean I've probably got 10 different tape echo's between Amplitube, GSI, SoundToyz, a bunch of freeware VST's, Guitar Rig's demo etc, and that is just tape echo, no digital echo's, analog echo's memoryman clones etc.

You could kill a few days just trying different effects, and then with the ability to sync the clocks on effects, ability to assign any parameter to EXP etc, you can spend days yet again coming up with this crazy control system and what you think it will do.

All well and good, but it rather takes time away from playing music.

When I was just using a simple MXR Carbon Copy with 3 knobs, it was pretty simple. Pick up guitar, adjust knob to taste, continue to play guitar.
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